Discussion with Khawar
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:23 PM
Mustaq, Salam Masnoon, Orkut par scrap karte huway baat ka record rakhna zara mushkil kaam hai. iss leeaye meiN aap ko email se zehmat day rahaa hooN. aap ne doraan guftagoo farmaya, "aik jang meiN donoaN fariqaiN haq par naheeN ho sakte" meiN iss se ittefaq naheeN karta. Ye aik general idea hai oar jis par baat ho sakti hai. laikin doraan e ghuftugo ham koshis karaiN ge, 1. ke nay-aye mazaamin zair behas na la-aiN ja-aiN. 2. tareekh, ahaadees ka sirf woh hissa istamaal kiya ja-aye ga jiss se ham dona ittefaq karte haiN. koi bhi ais hadith jo aap maan-ne se inkaar kar daiN ge, meiN paish naheeN karooN ga oar koi bhi ais hadith jo aap paish karaiN ge oar mujhe uss ke sehat par inkaar ho gaa vo bhi nikaal dee ja-aye gi. iss ki waja bohat simple hai. kyooN ke jub meiN aap se hadith paish karooN ga ke "tamaam suhaaba sitaroaN ki maanind haiN ji ki pairvi karo gay falah pao ge" toaa aap yaqeenun isse kabool naheeN karaiN ge. iss tarah jub meiN aap ko ashraa mubashara wali hadith quote karooN ga toa aap uss se bhi ittefaq naheeN karaiN ge. iss leeaye meiN in ahaadith ko such saabit karne meiN time waste naheeN karooN ga balke aap ke hi khayalat oar maalomoot se faida uthane ki koshish karooN ga. so aap par bhi laazim ho ga ke jis rewait ya waqia se mujhe ittefaq na hoo usse apni guftgood meiN shaamil na karaiN. wagarna nateeja aik laa hasil behas ho gi oar ham donoaN ke paas yaqeenun itna waqt naheeN ke ham laa hasil guftgoo meiN sarf karaiN. 3. baat sirf unhi facts par ki ja-aye gi jo aap ke oar mere donoaN ke ilm meiN ho gi 4. meiN koshish karooN ga ke kissi bhi tareekhi waqia ya rewait se koi istadaal laine se pehle aap say pooch looN ke kia aap uss waqia ya rewait ka maante haiN ke naheen. OAR aap chaahaiN to iss guftgoo ke leeaye aik dao moderatos select kar ke un ko CC kar daiN taa ke agar ham meiN se kissi ko baat na samajh aa-aye to shaid un moderators ko hi aa ja-aye. Orkut meiN iss maslaa par mere allawa do logaoN ne baat ki aik Amir sb ne oar Aik miss sumaira ne. Amir sb ne meri baat ki taaeed ki thi oar Miss Sumaira ne aap ki mein In dono ko ye mail CC kar rahaa hooN. In dono se meri iltimaas ho gi ke hamari guftgoo meiN shareek na hoan laikin jub unhaiN lage ke ham dono meiN se apna maa fiz zameer bare clear andaaz meiN paish kar diya hai oar woh samajhte haiN ke unhoaN ke ghalat support kiya ta toa hameiN zaroor bata daiN wasalam, aap ka shukarguzar, Muhammad Khawa.

Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:44 PM Mushtaq to Khawar
Salam, Sorry for late replying. Actually main hotmail kay is account main mails ko buhut kam check kerta hoon. I just use this id for msn. Aaj ittifaqan main nay mail check ki aur aap ki mail ko daikh ker bari khushi huwi. main aap ki qadar kerta hoon q ki main akser aap say mukhtalif mamlat main debate kerta raha hoon. aur aap ko akser main nay dalayil kay sath behes kertay paya hai. Mahool ka ek na honay say insaan ki tarbiyat b mukhtalif hoti hai. Main hamalaya aur karakoram kay silsilay ki ek valley say taluq rakhta hoon aur aap ek Maidani ilaqay say. Meri parwarish ek Shia ghiranay main huwi hai, jab main 17 saal ka tha to main nay gilgit chora aur studies kay liyay Lahore kay FC college main dakhil ho gaya. FC college main meri suhbat ziyada ter ahl-e-sunnat kay logon say rahi. Wahan say FSc kernay kay baad main nay Chinese language seekhnay kay liyay NIML Islamabad main dakhla liya and then i got the scholorship for higher studies in China. China main meri suhbat mazeed cultural aur religegous logoon say rahi. In batoon ko batanay ka maqsad mera yeah hai ki main nay duniya kay takreeban her kisam kay logon say taluk rakha hai. China main meray Cathlolic aur Hindu room mates rahay hain, Jews kay sath b mera uthna baitha raha hai. Budhist b meray clas fellow rahay hain, Pakistan say taluk rakhnay walay kuch Ahmebi b meray juniors rahay hain, aur Allah kay fazal say mera sab kay sath buhut acha taluk raha hai. Main aap ko ek waqia sunana chahonga jo meri apni zaat kay sath paish aaya. I had a Pakistani class fellow jo ki NIML say meray sath tha, when i reached in China university, both of us had different rooms and different room mates. Mera rom mate ek swis larka tha jo ki Catholic tha aur meray us Pakistani clas fellow ka room mate ek Nepali larka tha who was Bhudhist. meray Pakistani class fellow nay kaha ki wo kisi hindu kay sath rehna nahi chahta, wo meray sath rehna chahta hai, so we changed the rooms. He came to my room and my swiss room-mate went to his room. Just after one month, i found this Pakistani(MUSLIM) guy jhoot bhi bolta hai, dhoka bhi daita hai..ek din isi tarah ki kisi baat per us say jhagra huwa aur main nay usay apnay kamray say nikal diya.......again changed the room mates, Nepali came to me and my Pakistani class fellow stayed with Swiss guy. After few days, Swiss guy came to me and told me that Pakistani guy has theft his 1200 German Marks and his Hand watch and CD Player. Police tak nobat aayi aur Pakistani ko do din tak hawalat main rehna para. It was the impresion of PAKISANI MUSLIM in my university. Baad main us Pakistani larkay nay aur b buht si wardatein ki aur then in second year usay university nay nikal diya gaya.... Kia yeah ISLAM hai? yahi ek sawal tha jo mujhey sochnay per majboor kerta tha ki aakhir her burayi MUSALMANOON say q hoti hai? Islam to kabhi aisa kernay ko nahi kehta.. laikin MUSLIM aisa kerta hai.... Is ki kia wajah hai ki hum log khud ko musalman kehtay hain aur Islam kay agaisnt hota hai humara her act? Ab aatay hain zair-e-behes mozoo ki taraf.. Mozoo kia hai? kia hum yeah sabit kernay ja rahay hain ki SHIA musalman ka rasta thek hai ya SUNNI ka? Main koi aisi koshish nahi kerna chahta q ki mujhey pata hai buhut saray SHIA's kaisa eman rakhtay hain aur buhut saray SUNNI's kaisay eman rakhtay hain. aap nay pin point kia hai ki "aik jang meiN donoaN fariqaiN haq par naheeN ho saktey". Aap is say ittifaq nahi kertay. Shayad aap kay pass is ki koi maqol wajah ho jisay aap Hadith say b sabit kerna chahtay hain, jabki meri AQAL is baat ko mannay per bilkul tayyar nahi. Meri aqal kay mutabiq "Jang hoti hi us waqt hai jab TAZAD ho, aur tazad hamesha sirf HAQ aur BATIL, sach aur jhoot, sahi aur galat kay beech main hota hai. aur JANG to hoti hi us waqt hai jab YA TO EK FARIK HAQ PER NA HO YA DONOON HI HAQ PER NA HOON. Yeah ek aisi bata hai jisay koi b aqal aur shaoor rakhnay wala banda samajh sakta hai. Is kisam ki baat kay liyay mera nahi khayal ki kisi hadith ki zaroorat hai. Jab donon farik hi ek dosray kay HAQ ko tasleem ker rahay hoon to phir TAZAD kahan ka?.. HAQ, SACH aur SAHI per ager saray fariq mutaffiq hoon to TAZAAD kahan say ayay ga? Haq per hamesha wahi hoga jis ka Eman mazboot ho, jis ka her kaam Allah kay liyay ho, jo HAQ aur BATIL kay faraq ko samajhnay ka ILM rakhta ho. Jisay SACH aur JHOOT ki pehchan ho. Zikar SAFFIN ka ho raha tha jo ki ek aisi jang thi jis main hazaroon musalaman maray gayay, aur jang musalmanon kay apas main huwi. Is jang main ek fariq Hazrat Ali(AS) thay to dosri taraf Muawiya. Main SHIA ban ker behes nahi kar raha. Main tareekh ko daikta hoon ki Ali(AH) ka Muhammad(SAWW) say taluq kaisa raha hai? Main daikhta hoon ki Ali(AS) ki parwarish hi Hazor(SAWW) kay hathon huwi hai. Main Badr, Ohud, Khandak, Khayber jaisi jangon ko daikhta hoon jahan Ali(AS) HAQ aur SACH kay sath apnay Eman-e-Kamil ka muzahira kertay hain. Phir main wo waqiya daikhta hoon jab dushman Ali(AH) kay qadmoon main gir para hai aur Ali(AS) usay wasil-e-jahannam kernay jarahay hotay hain to dushman Ali(AS) per thook-ta hai, aur Ali(AS) ki uthi huwi talwar uthi rehti hai.. aur wo dushman ko wahein per chor ker chalay jatay hain ki kahein TALWAR ki war main ZAAT na aajayay. Main kaisay usay galat samjhoon jo dushman ko sirf is liyay chorta hai ki kahein us ko QATAL kertay huway ZATI ana na ajayay. aur main kaisay in bat per yaqeen karon ki aisi shakhsiyat koi b kaam apni ZAAT kay liyay ker sakti hai? Phir main waqia- Mubahila ko daikhta hoon jis ka zikar quran main in alfaz kay sath hai' "Yeah ilam aajanay kay baad ab jo koi is mamlay main tum say jhagra karay to ae Muhammad(SAWW)! us say kaho "Aao, hum log apnay apnay farzand, apni apni auratein aur apnay apnay nafsoon ko bulayein aur Khuda ki bargah main dua karein ki jhoton per Khuda ki qarar dain"(Al-Imran #61) Aur un hastiyon ko daikhta hoon jinhein Hazor(SAWW) apnay FARZAND, apnay NAFS aur apni AURATEIN keh ker sath lay jatay hain Mubahilay k liyay to mujhey wahan per b Ali(AS) nazar aatay hain, aur sath sath Hussain(AS) Hazor(SAWW) ki goad main, Hassan(AS) Hazor(SAWW) ki angli pakray,aur Fatima(AS) b sath nazar aatay hain. Ab main kaisay in hastiyon ko GALAT kahon aur unhein sahi kahon jinhoon nay in kay sath ziyadti ki? Phir main daikhta hoon ki Quran kehta hai, Allah nay Adam aur Noah aur Aal e Ibrahim aur Aal e Imran ko duniya walon per tarjeh day ker(apni risalat k liyay) muntakhib kia tha. Yeah ek silsilay kay log thay jo ek dosray ki nasal say paida huway.(AL-IMRAN 33.34) Jab Allah khud Aal-e-Ibrahim ko dosroon per Tarjeh daita hai to main kaisay un ka muqam ka kisi aur say moazna karon? Kash hum jo khud ko musalman kehtay hain hum in hasityoon ki tarz-e-zindagi ko apnay liyay mash-al e rah samjhein jinhoon nay DEEN per apni zindigiyaan nishawer kein. Jin ka Character un ki azmat ko batata hai. Hum logon nay khud ko Shia, Sunni bana ker apnay ko khud hi mushkil main dala hai. Shia sunni ko aur Sunni shia ko KHARIJ AZ ISLAM samjhta hai........halanki AMAL kay lihaz say shia aur sunni ki askariat ek jaisi hai. Hum nay EMAN ko chor ker TAGHOOT ko apnay liyay muntakhid kia hai. Allah hum sab ko taqwa per qayim rehnay ki toufeeq day aur DEEN main tazad paida kernay say mehfooz rakhay. Ummed hai ki meri oper ki huwi koi baat kisi ki DILAZARI ka sabab nahi banay gi. Fee Aman Illah. Mushtaq



Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:44 PM Khawar to Mushtaq
Mushtaq, waalikumsalam, aap ka bohat shukriya ke aap ne itni vazaahat meiN likha. Mein umoomun iss tarah ki discussion meiN sirf zaroori batoaN par reply kartaa hooN oar woah bataiN ya sawaalat jin ka barah e raast uss muamale say koi talluq na hooN chhor daitaa hooN. yahaab hi aisa hi karooN ga. Ji haaN hamaray darmaya zair behas muaamla meiN ne sujbect line par likha huwa hai. "aik jang meiN dono fareeq haq par ho sakte haiN" abhi ham Hazrat Ali RA or Hazrat Muawai RA tak naheeN pohnchay. pehly baat ko general tay karaiN ge ke ye meri ye statement theek hai ke naheeN hai. phir agay chalaiN ge. oar gar discussion baghair usooloaN ke ho gi toa uss ka koi faaida naheeN. iss leeaye meiN ne apni pehli mail meiN aap ko kuch ussool tajveez keaaye thay aap ne un par apne comments naheeN diaye. mein un par comments ka muntazir hooN taa ke baat aage chal sake. aap ka shukarguzar, Muhammad Khawar.



Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:35:35 +0500 Mushtaq to Khawar
Salam, OK.. Aap mujhey batayein ki aik jang main donoon fariq kaisay haq per hotay hain? Khsa kar jab Jang EMAN kay sath ho aur jab jang Allah kay Deen kay liyay ho. I am waiting for your arguments.


QUESTIONS BY KHAWAR AND ANSWERS BY MUSHTAQ

Monday, December 18, 2006 10:59 AM From Khawar to Mushtaq 1st Case by Khawar
Salam Mushtaq, :) . aap kaafi saari cheezaiN tay keeaye baghair hi aage chalna chah rahaiN haiN. chaliaye koi baat naheeN. Aik maaN ka accident ho gia. Ittefaq se uss ke donoaN baite bohat kaabil doctor thay. Ai baite ne check ki to iss nateeje par pohancha ke maaN ki taang kaat daini chahiaye taak e zakha aage na phaile iss tarah jaan bach sakti hay. doosre baite check kiyaa oar reports daikheeN toa toa uss ne conclude kia ke forun haram maghz ka operation karna chahiaye jaan bhi bach jaa-aye gi taang bhi. thora sa risky zaroorr hai laikin mujhe khud par aitemaad hai. meiN ye risk lay saktaa hooN. jub pehle baite ko pata chaala to woah forun doosre ke paas gaya ke naheeN haram maghz ka operaion ka risk ham naheeN lay sakte. hamaiN taang kaat daini chahiaye. jub ka pehlaa baita apne muaqaf par dataa raha naheeN ham thore risk ke saath taang oar maaN dono ko bacha sakte haiN. baat hospital ke doosre doctors tak bhi gayee. kuch ne aik bhai ka saath diaya oar kuch ne doosre ka saath dia. Choonke dono maaN se mohabbat karte thay oar apne aap par aitemaad rakhte thay. iss leeaye mauamlaa baRh gia. aik ne risk na laine diay aik ne taang na katne di oar donoaN mei laRai ho gi oar itne meiN maaN chal basi. aap bataa-aye kasoor kiss ka huwaa? aadhe doctor aik ko theek keh rahaiN haiN oar aadhe doosre ko? aap ke jawab ka muntazir, Muhammad Khawar.




Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:02:28 +0500 Answer from Mushtaq to Khawar
Salam, aap bataa-aye kasoor kiss ka huwaa? aadhe doctor aik ko theek keh >rahaiN haiN oar aadhe doosre ko? Donon baitay galat thay. Donon nay apni apni jagah per yeah samjha ki wo MOAT(DEATH) ko aanay say rok saktay hain. Donon nay sirf KHUD ko hi sahi samjha aur dosray ko GALAT.. Halanki donon galat thay. Barhaq to MOAT thi jo waqt aanay per her sorat aaker hi rehti hai. Ab main aap say sawal karna chahonga, just suppose ki ager TAANG kati jati to kia un ki mother ki moat na aati? ya operation kiya jata to kia un ki mother BACH jatein? Main to is baat ko nahi manta. MOAT to HAQ hai...ek aisa sach jis say koi BELIEVER or NON-BELIEVER inkar nahi ker sakta. Un ki maaN ka waqt pora ho gaya tha so wo chal basien. Mera yaqeen to yeah hai ki TANG kay katay janay say ya OPERATION say b un ki mother bach na patein.. q ki us nay apna waqt pora kia tha. aur ager TANG kaat ker ya OPERATION ker kay b mother ki death ho jati (jis ka ki mujhey kam az kam yaqeen hai ki wo sari duniya kay doctor mil ker b un ki maan ko moat say nahi bacha saktay thay) to nateeja kia hota? Ek na khatam honay wala JHAGRA...jis baitay ki baat mani jati aur TAANG kati jati ya OPERATION kiya jata us ko dosra BAITA apni hi maaN ki MOAT ka zimmaydar thehrata.Balki MAAN KA QATIL kehta. Mujhey nahi maloom ki aap is baat say kia sabit kerna chahtay hain . Laikin main nay apna NAZRIYA bayan ker diya hai. aur apnay nazriyay kay mutabiq DALIL say aap kay sawal ka jawab diya hai. Ab ager aap yeah kehtay hain ki MOAT ka IKHTIYAR DOCTOR kay hath main hai to main is baat ko nahi maan sakta. Main to ZINDAGI aur MOAT ko Allah kay ikhtiyar main samjhta hoon aur mera to is per yaqeen hai ki jab MOAT aani ho to duniya ki koi taqat usay nahi rok sakti. Main abhi bhi yahi kahonga, Jhagra ya Tazad hota hi us waqt hai jab ya to DONON farik hi GALAT hoon ya donon main say EK galat ho. SACH kay oper aur HAQ kay oper kabhi TAZAD nahi hota. Hope you can bring some other example to prove that Aik jang meiN dono fareeq haq par ho sakte haiN!. Allah Hafiz Mushtaq




Monday, December 18, 2006 11:10 PM Khawar to Mushtaq 2nd Case by Khawar
Ji Musthtaq, meiN zaroor oar zaroor aap ki khidmat meiN kuch oar examples ke saath paish hota rahooN. ub aik oar waqia sun-aye. Aik shahks ne aik khonta aik kunwaiN ke saath baand di-ye ke koi musafir aa-aye ga to jaanwar uss se baandh lay ga. Aik oar shakhs ne un ke bilgul ultat socha oar iss khayal se khonta ukhaar kar phaink diyaa ke iss se kissi ko chot lag sakti hai. Allah ke Rasool SAWW ko jub iss waqia ke ilm huwaa toa aap ne farmaya donoaN ka amal Allah ke haaN ajar rakhtaa hai. 1. Mere waade ke mutabiq agar aap iss ke leeaye iss waqia ki sanad mashkook hai to meiN is waqia ko chhor kar aage baRhne ko tayyar hooN. 2. Agar aap iss waqia ko saHeeH maante haiN to kia iss se ye akhaz kia jaa saktaa hai. ko doa log aik hi shay (khonta lagane) ke baare meiN bilqul oposite idea rakh kar bhee Allah ke haaN ajar paa sakte haiN? oar mushtaq yaad rakhiaye ga . jawab aap ne apne aap ko daine haiN, mujhe naheeN [;)]. kyoonke aap haq ke mutlaashi haiN. umeed hay ke aap apne saath koi jhoot naheeN bolaiN ge. wasalam, Muhammad Khawar.


Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:55 AM Mushtaq to Khawar

Khawar sb, na main is waqia ki tareekh maloom karonga aur na hi hadith ki sehat. Allah ke Rasool SAWW ko jub iss waqia ke ilm huwaa toa aap ne farmaya donoaN ka amal Allah ke haaN ajar rakhtaa hai. very right. Ab main aap ko jawab donga, Donon ki niyat BEHTARI kay liyay thi is liya donon ko ajar milna chahiyay. Ab jhagra jab aajata hai to donon ki niyat THEK ho ker b q ki donon main AQAL ki kami thi is liyay jhagra paish aya. Ager donon main say kisi ek main bhi MERI JITNI BHI aqal hoti to jaghray ki nobat hi na aati aur wo khonta kisi aisi jagah per b lag sakta tha jahan kisi ko choat lagnay ka andesha bhi na hota aur janwar bhi banday ja saktay. aur donon ka maqsad bhi hal ho jata aur tazad bhi na aata. Aur AQAL ilam say aati hai. Aap Sarwar-e-Qainat(SAWW) nay khud ko MADINATUL ILM keh ker jinhein ILM kay SHEHR ka DARWAZA kaha hai un ki AQAL aur un KHONTAY walon ki AQAL ko ek jaisa samjhtay hain to I DONT THINK YOU WILL ACCEPT THE TRUTH. Wahi sabit kerna chahtay hain na aap? ki Hzarat Ali(AS) bhi thek thay aur muawiya bhi thek thay saffin main jahan hazaroon musalman shaheed huway? Jis nay Bab-e-shehr e Ilm kay ILAM, AQAL aur EMAN per shak kiya us nay SHEHER-EILAM kay ILAM,EMAN aur AQAL per shak kiya..Ab aagay aap samajhdar hain. Main Ali(AS) ka follower hoon, jahan ILM, AQAL aur EMAN ek mujassam ki sorat main nazar aata hai. Wo Ali(AS) jin ka ILM yeah tha ki kehtay thay POCHO,MUJH SAY JO POCHNA HAI. Ager aap un kay ILM,EMAN aur AQAL ka muawiyah say moazna karaingay to i am sorry, main aap kay zehen o dil say BUGZ-E-ALI to nahi na nikal sakta. Haan, main tasleem kerta hoon ki main mowaiyah say BUGZ rakhta hoon q ki main ALI(AS) say HUB rakhta. Main khud ko dhoka nahi daita donon ko HAQ samajh kay.. Main achi tarah janta hooN ki Ali(AS) Muhammad(SAWW) kay hathoon palay huway thay aur un ki shakhsiyat aur kirdar tareekh main mehfoz hai. jin kay kirdar o shakhsiyat ki mazboti ko YAHODI aur ESAYI bhi tasleem kertay hain aur Munkir-e-Khuda bhi. ab Aap SUMMUN BUKKMUN huwey hain to main kia ker sakta hoon. Mushtaq



Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:55 AM Khawar to Mushtaq
Salam Mushtaq, Ji meiN aap ka shukar guzar hooN ke aap ne mere sawalaoN ka jawab dia. believe me, meiN ne aap ke neechay walay do paragraph paRhay bhi naheeN. Mujhe aap us waq boha achhay lagte haiN jub aap kehte haiN ke behas meiN emotional naheeN hona chah-iaye. dhayan keejiaye gaa (Suhabaa ko khonte walay keh kar kaheeN aap badtameezi ke murtakib naa ho gay hoaN). chaliaye meiN saari ghair zaroori batiaN aik baar phir skip kartaa hooN. aik oar sawaal aap se. ye sawaalat meiN aap se aap ke nazriat jaan-ne ke leeaye kar rahaa hooN tak uss ke baad aap se dalail ka silsala shroo ho. agar jawab mail meiN aap bhi koi sawal( sirf aik) mujh se poochna chah rahaiN toa mujhe khushi ho gi. Teen bhai ikathay business kar rahe thay. aik saazish hoee oar bare bhai ko qatal kar deeaye gia. oar qaatil choonke ird gird se hi thay unhoaN ne aik bhai say for example A ko jo ko CEO naheeN ban-na chahtaa thaa kissi na kissi taraH CEO banaa diya. ubb mujhe ye bataa-aye ke jub doosre bhai B ko pataa chalay ke jin logoaN ne bare bhai ko qatal kiyaa hai un ke kehne par hi bhai A CEO ban gaya hai to usse (B ko) kia karnaa chah-aye. jawab daite huwa aap se iltamaas hai ke baat A oar B ke darmayan hi rakhiaye. A oar B donoaN aaj ke dunya kee jeetay jaagte "INSAAN" haiN. Allah ta'ala aap ko khush rakhay. Mukhlis, Muhammad Khawar.


Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:47:44 +0500
Khawar, Find my answers in blue text. Ji meiN aap ka shukar guzar hooN ke aap ne mere sawalaoN ka jawab dia. believe me, meiN ne aap ke neechay walay do paragraph paRhay bhi naheeN (I Really dont believe ;).) Mujhe aap us waq boha achhay lagte haiN jub aap kehte haiN ke behas meiN emotional naheeN hona chah-iaye. dhayan keejiaye gaa (Suhabaa ko khonte walay keh kar kaheeN aap badtameezi ke murtakib naa ho gay hoaN). Aap nay to kam az kam do dafa zaror parha hoga un pairagraphs ko. ager nahi to main yahi samjhonga ki aap behes ko totaly personal lay rahay hain. Aap HUBB-E-SUHABA ki sooch ker haqeeqat say aankhein chura rahay hain. warna yeah zarori nahi k her wo shakhs jo Muhammad(SAWW) kay dor main zinda tha usay hum EMAN-E-KAMIL wala SAHABI samjhein. Munafiq b usi dor kay thay, Khariji b usi dor kay thay Kia ab hum MUFIQEEN aur Kharijioon ko b SAHABI keh ker izzat karein? Main yahan ek link aap ko daita hoon. Kindly go through the link you will find some realities of Islam. Please read the book .. Please gairjanbidari say parhein. .http://al-islam1.org/underattack/author.htm chaliaye meiN saari ghair zaroori batiaN aik baar phir skip kartaa hooN. aik oar sawaal aap se. ye sawaalat meiN aap se aap ke nazriat jaan-ne ke leeaye kar rahaa hooN tak uss ke baad aap se dalail ka silsala shroo ho. agar jawab mail meiN aap bhi koi sawal( sirf aik) mujh se poochna chah rahaiN toa mujhe khushi ho gi. Thanks ki aap nay mujhey SAWAL pochnay ki ijazat di. Jahan mujhey zaroorat pari wahan main aap say sawal zaror pochonga. Filhal zarorat nahi parhi.q ki main abhi tak aap ki baton say KHUD PARASTI ki boo mehsos ker raha hoon. (Sorry to be so straight forward. Hope you will not mind it because you know urself much beter then others) Teen bhai ikathay business kar rahe thay. aik saazish hoee oar bare bhai ko qatal kar deeaye gia. oar qaatil choonke ird gird se hi thay unhoaN ne aik bhai say for example A ko jo ko CEO naheeN ban-na chahtaa thaa kissi na kissi taraH CEO banaa diya. ubb mujhe ye bataa-aye ke jub doosre bhai B ko pataa chalay ke jin logoaN ne bare bhai ko qatal kiyaa hai un ke kehne par hi bhai A CEO ban gaya hai to usse (B ko) kia karnaa chah-aye. Aap kay is sawal ka jawab main kuch is tarah donga; "" Eman walo! ager koi fasiq koi khabar lay ker aayay to us ki tasdeek karo. Aisa na ho ki kisi qoam tak nawaqfiat main pohunch jawo aur us kay baad apnay aqdam per sharminda hona paray" (49-Hujurat Aya 6) then in the same sora "Ager Momineen kay dou guroh apas main jhagra karain toa tum sab un kay darmiyan sulah kerwawo. Is kay bad ager ek dosray per zulam karey to sab mil ker us say jang karo jo ziyadti kernay wala guroh hai. yahan tak ki wo bhi khuda kay hukam ki taraf wapis aajayay. phir ager palat aayay to adal kay sath islah karo. aur insaf say kaam lo ki khuda insaaf kernay walon ko dost rakhta hai" (49-Hujurat Aya-9) Then in Aya 12,Hujurat; " Eman walo! Aksar gumanoon say ijtinab karo ki baaz guman gunah ka darja rakhtay hain..." The Almighty commanded us to try to find out weather an accusation is true or false, and that we ought not to try people and convict them without questioning them. QURAN humein kehta hai ki TASDEEQ KARO, aur AMAL karo INSAF KAY SATH. Us bhayi B ko sab say pehlay chahiyay hai ki wo is khabar ki tasdeeq karay. Aur ager wo is SACH ko pehchan jata hai ki us kay bhayi k qatil kon hain to sab say pehlay us ko apnay bhayi A kay pas jaker yeah baat batani chahiyay hai. Ager bhai B sach hai aur ager A aur B apnay us bhayi say jo QATAL kiya gayay hain SACHI muhubbat kertay thay aur donon hi yahi chahtay hain ki Bhayi kay Qatil samnay aajayein aur CEO ki seat ki lalich donon main say kisi main nahi hai to wo donon bhayi hi mil ker Bhai kay qatil ko manzar-e-aam per laker adalat say rujoh ker saktay hain. Ager donon SACH hoon apni qatal huway huway bhai ki MUHUBBAT main to phir tazad aa yi nahi sakta. Allah aap ko hidayat day.


Tuesday, December 19, 2006 3:53 PM Khawar to Mushtaq 3rd case by Khawar
Mushtaq, aap ko jo koi bhi ghalat fehmi hoee hai meri zaat ke mutalliq meiN usse baad meiN door kartaa rahooN ga. abhi meiN iss se ziada zaroori baat karna cha-hooN ga, aap ke iss jawab ka shukriay. "Us bhayi B ko sab say pehlay chahiyay hai ki wo is khabar ki tasdeeq karay. Aur ager wo is SACH ko pehchan jata hai ki us kay bhayi k qatil kon hain to sab say pehlay us ko apnay bhayi A kay pas jaker yeah baat batani chahiyay hai. Ager bhai B sach hai aur ager A aur B apnay us bhayi say jo QATAL kiya gayay hain SACHI muhubbat kertay thay aur donon hi yahi chahtay hain ki Bhayi kay Qatil samnay aajayein aur CEO ki seat ki lalich donon main say kisi main nahi hai to wo donon bhayi hi mil ker Bhai kay qatil ko manzar-e-aam per laker adalat say rujoh ker saktay hain. Ager donon SACH hoon apni qatal huway huway bhai ki MUHUBBAT main to phir tazad aa yi nahi sakta. ubb B ne tasdeeq to pata chala ke haaN A toa naheeN chahtaa thay ke CEO banay laikin katiloaN ne oar kuch doosre logoaN ne mil kar unhaiN CEO banaa leeaye. So uss ne A se kahaa meiN tumari chairmanship kabool kar laitaa hooN agar tum bhai ke qatiloaN ko pakar kar sazaa do. ub farma-aye A ko kia karnaa chahiaye? Regards, Muhamamd Khawar.


Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:04:13 +0500 Mushtaq to Khawar

"Us bhayi B ko sab say pehlay chahiyay hai ki wo is khabar ki tasdeeq karay. Aur ager wo is SACH ko pehchan jata hai ki us kay bhayi k qatil kon hain to sab say pehlay us ko apnay bhayi A kay pas jaker yeah baat batani chahiyay hai. Ager bhai B sach hai aur ager A aur B apnay us bhayi say jo QATAL kiya gayay hain SACHI muhubbat kertay thay aur donon hi yahi chahtay hain ki Bhayi kay Qatil samnay aajayein aur CEO ki seat ki lalich donon main say kisi main nahi hai to wo donon bhayi hi mil ker Bhai kay qatil ko manzar-e-aam per laker adalat say rujoh ker saktay hain. Ager donon SACH hoon apni qatal huway huway bhai ki MUHUBBAT main to phir tazad aa yi nahi sakta. ubb B ne tasdeeq to pata chala ke haaN A toa naheeN chahtaa thay ke CEO banay laikin katiloaN ne oar kuch doosre logoaN ne mil kar unhaiN CEO banaa leeaye. So uss ne A se kahaa meiN tumari chairmanship kabool kar laitaa hooN agar tum bhai ke qatiloaN ko pakar kar sazaa do. Is ka matlab yeah huwa ki "B" nay shuruh say hi "A" ki chairmanship ko dil say qabol nahi kia tha. balki wo to shayad yahi soch raha tha ki CHAIRMANSHIP ka us ka HAQ dosray bhayi nay cheena hai.. halanki usay is mokay per jab mamlay BHAYi kay qatiloon ka ho to is cheez ka lehaz kerna chahiyay tha ki KURSI ki ahmiat itni nahi jitni ki QATILON ko pakarnay ki hai, aur yeah kehta "Aayein, hum donon bhayi mil ker tesray bhayi kay qatilon ko pakrain", Aap kay is bayan say ki bhayi "B" IS MOQAY PER AAKER bhayi "A" ki CHAIRMAN SHIP qabol kerta hai wo b MASHROOT ki "Is sharat per ki tum bhayi kay qatil ko pakrogay" us bhayi "B" ki maqtool bhayi kay qatilon ko pakarnay say mutaliq irrespnsibility ka batata hai.... ki "AGER TUM us ko parko".. yani MAIN kuch nahi karonga.. siwayay is kay ki aap ki CHAIRMANSHIP qabol karon..:). Yahan aap hi ki baat yeah sabit kerti hai ki Maqtool BHAYI kay liyay khalos bhai "A" hi rakhta hai jo us ki jagah CHAIRMANSHIP laini ki garaz nahi rakhta tha.. aur jis nay baqol aapkay apnay bayan kay mutabiq badil-e-na-khasta chairman ship qabol ki thi. jaisey ki bhai "B" nay tasdeeq b ki. BHAYI "B" ko aisa kehna hi nahi chahiyay tha ager usay BHAI "A" kay khalos aur qatil bhai say muhubbat per yaqeen hota. Aap kay is case main bhayi kay qatilon ko pakarnay ki Bhayi "B" ki "Chairmanship ki qaboliat ki offer" sabit kerti hai ki maqtool bhayi kay liyay bhayi "A" bhayi "B" ki nisbat ziyada khalos rakhtay hain. Aur Bhayi "B" kay nazdeek ahmiat Chairmanship ki hai. Aisey moqay per to us bhayi"B" ka faraz banta hai ki bhayi "A" ka bharpor sath day aur usay yeah na kahay ki "Tum qatilon ko giriftar karo to main tumhari chairmanship kabol kerta hoon" balki yeah kahay ki "Aayein bhayi, aap Chairman hain, aap kay pas ikhtiyar hai aur main aap kay sath hoon. Humaray oper is waqt ek zimmadari aayi hai ki bhayi kay qatilon ko pakrain aur unhein is sangeen juram ki saza dilayein." ub farma-aye A ko kia karnaa chahiaye? aur aisay mokay per bhayi "A" ko kehna chahiyay ki "Aap mujh per aitibar rakhein, aur meri apnay maqtool bhayi say muhubbat per yaqeen rakhein. Main nay Chairmanship ki khwahish nahi ki thi, ab jab mujhey logon nay mujhay chairman banaya hai to phir meri bhayi kay qatilon ko pakarnay ki zimmaydari aap ki nisbat meray per ziyada banti hai. Aap mera sath dain, Inshallah donon bhayi mil ker bhayi kay qatilon ko kaifr-e-kirdar tak pohonchayingay". Hope you got satisfaction by my answers.



Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:07 PM Khawar to Mushtaq
Salam Musthaq, woah aap to jhank sakte haiN. laikin mujh meiN aisi taaqat naheen ke meiN kissi ke dil ka haal jaan sakhooN. so Mein aap ka aik baar phir iss jawab ke leeaye shukar guzar hooN. Bhai B ke dil meiN kia hai "aur aisay mokay per bhayi "A" ko kehna chahiyay ki "Aap mujh per aitibar rakhein, aur meri apnay maqtool bhayi say muhubbat per yaqeen rakhein. Main nay Chairmanship ki khwahish nahi ki thi, ab jab mujhey logon nay mujhay chairman banaya hai to phir meri bhayi kay qatilon ko pakarnay ki zimmaydari aap ki nisbat meray per ziyada banti hai. Aap mera sath dain, Inshallah donon bhayi mil ker bhayi kay qatilon ko kaifr-e-kirdar tak pohonchayingay". aap theek farmateiN haiN aisa hi hona chahiaye. ub A ne saari company staff ki meeting ki. uss meiN woaH mashkook log bhi shaamil the jinhoaN ne qatal kiyaa thaa. oar kahaa ke batao qatal kiss ne kiya hai. sub yak zubaan ho kar bole "ham ne qatal kiyaa hai" ubb bhi A ke leeaye mushkil ho gayee. 1. woh kiss ko qatal thehra-aye.? 2. Bhai B uss mulk meiN nahee hai jahaaN par bhai A oar company hai. 3. Khandaan ke bohat se log, jo uss mulk meiN haiN woah bhi "katilaoN" ko pakarna chahte haiN oar A par zor daal rahaiN haiN. ubb bataa-aye aage kia hona chah-aye?
Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:57:05 +0500 Mushtaq to Khawar
woah aap to jhank sakte haiN. laikin mujh meiN aisi taaqat naheen ke meiN kissi ke dil ka haal jaan sakhooN. so Mein aap ka aik baar phir iss jawab ke leeaye shukar guzar hooN. Bhai B ke dil meiN kia hai.
Diloon ki batein aap hi to bata rahay hain khawar. Main to aap kay BATAYAY huway HALAT ko paish nazar rakh ker aap hi kay sawalon ka jawab day raha hooN. Khuda nay AQAL di hai insaan ko. Insaan ko chahiyay hai ki us AQAL ko istimal karay. Jo Insaan AQAL istimal nahi kerta usay khud Allah tala nay "Andhey hain, Behray hain, Gongay hain" kaha hai..halanki wo q ki wo AQAL ko istimal nahi kertay aur JHOOT ko SUCH banany ki koshish kertay hain. "aur aisay mokay per bhayi "A" ko kehna chahiyay ki "Aap mujh per aitibar rakhein, aur meri apnay maqtool bhayi say muhubbat per yaqeen rakhein. Main nay Chairmanship ki khwahish nahi ki thi, ab jab mujhey logon nay mujhay chairman banaya hai to phir meri bhayi kay qatilon ko pakarnay ki zimmaydari aap ki nisbat meray per ziyada banti hai. Aap mera sath dain, Inshallah donon bhayi mil ker bhayi kay qatilon ko kaifr-e-kirdar tak pohonchayingay".aap theek farmateiN haiN aisa hi hona chahiaye. ub A ne saari company staff ki meeting ki. uss meiN woaH mashkook log bhi shaamil the jinhoaN ne qatal kiyaa thaa. oar kahaa ke batao qatal kiss ne kiya hai. sub yak zubaan ho kar bole "ham ne qatal kiyaa hai"
Kamal hai, pehli dafa sun raha hoon ki sub jak zaban ho kar bole"ham nay qatal kia hai". Aur ager waqayi sab nay mil ker us kay BHAYI ko qatal kia hai to phir to mamla saaf hai. Un kay MAQTOOL bhayi nay yaqeenan koi aisa kaam aur aisi violation ki hogi ki sab nay mil ker us ko QATAL kerna zaroori samjha.
Agar sub yak ziban hoker yeah boltay ki "Hum nay qatal nahi kiya" to phir aap kay mandarja zel sawalon ka jawab is tarah ho sakta hai.ubb bhi A ke leeaye mushkil ho gayee.1. woh kiss ko qatal thehra-aye.?
Khuda nay ager us bhayi A ko itni aqal di hai ki wo janta hai ki US KAY THEHRANAY SAY koi qatil nahi banta. Balki jis nay haqeeqat main QATAL kia hai wahi qatil hoga na ki bhai A kay kisi ko QATIL samjhnay say. tu is main us bhayi A ko paraishan honay kii zarorat hi nahi. QATIL idher nahi pakra gaya to roz-e-mahshar wo Allah ki adalat main samnay hoga.
2. Bhai B uss mulk meiN nahee hai jahaaN par bhai A oar company hai.
Bari hairat ki baat hai ki bhayi B dosray mulak main bath ker bhayi A ko kehta hai ki BHAYI kay Qatilon ko pakro aur is kay badlay us ki chairmanship qabol kerta hai. Bara hi Irresponsible bhai hai yeah B. Us say kahein ki QATIL ko pakarna ziyada aham hai..usay foran Bhayi A ka sath dainay kay liyay Bhai A kay pas jana chahiyay.
3. Khandaan ke bohat se log, jo uss mulk meiN haiN woah bhi "katilaoN" ko pakarna chahte haiN oar A par zor daal rahaiN haiN.
A company ka CHAIRMAN hai ya KOTOWAL? ya koi TAFTEESHI afser?? Ager Bhai A kay ikhtiyar main hai ki wo Bhayi B kay qatiloon ko pakar ker saza day sakta hai to kisi ko us bhayi per ZOR dainay ki zaroorat hi nahi, q ki BHAYI A ka apna BHAYI qatal huwa hai jis say wo MUHUBBAT kerta tha. Waisey ajeeb rishtadar hain aap kay in dostoon kay. Even BHAYI B nay b BHAYI A ko akaila chora hai QATILON ko pakranay kay liyay. Baichara bhayi A..kin logon kay beech main phans gaya hai. ek to us ka apna bhayi B hai jo yeah kehta hai ki QATIL ko giraftar karo warna main aap ki CHAIRMANSHIP qabol nahi karonga.. Rishtaydar qatil ko giraftar kernay per sirf ZOR daitay hain.Khawar sab, meray khayal main aap behtar hai ki khul ker baat karain.. Kabhi MAAN kay accident to kabhi KHONTI ka zikar kernay aur phir kabhi CEO kay QATAL say aap khud ko mushkil main daal rahay hai.. .q ki is tarah aap ki confusion barh rahi hai..halanki aap kay ab tak kay kayi sawlon kay main nay jo jawab diyay hain un main aap ko dhond ker b koi AITIRAZ kay qabil cheez nahi mili.
(Note: Aap nay Sumaria ko cc nahi kia is liyay mujhey humaira aur atif aur kuch dosray LnI kay members ko b CC kerna para. Hope u will not mind and will not foget to send CC to every one.)



Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:16:33 +0000 Khawar to Mushtaq
aik do mukhtasa guzarishaat,1. aap ne likhaa ke meiN abhi tak aap ki kissi baat par aitraaz nahi kar sakaa. bhai mere ye ghalat fehmi nikaal dijiaye ke meiN aap ki batoaN par aitraaz karne leeaye aap se bataiN kar rahaa hooN. meiN mukhtalif nawaiat ke sawaalat zindigi ke mukhtailf muaamlaat meiN aap ka nuqta nazar jaan-ne ke leeaye kar rahaa hooN. oar umeed kartaa hooN ke in sawaloaN ke jawab meiN aap ke zahn meiN bhi kuch sawaal uth rahaiN hoaN ge oar un ke jawaab aap khudh talaash karaiN ge to yaqeen such ko behtar tor par jaaan sakaiN ge.oar aap ke jawaabaat par mujhe jo aitraaazat thay woaH meiN ne iss leeaye bhi discuss naheeN kiaye ke mein aap se shroo se hi arz kar chukka hooN ke doraan e discussion ghair aham batoaN par time kharch karne se ham asal track se hat jaataiN hain oar meiN aisa naheeN chaata.2. CC wali baat ki leeaye meiN apni pehli mail meiN se aik quotation day rahaa. iss par nazar daal leejiaye ga."miss sumaira ne. Amir sb ne meri baat ki taaeed ki thi oar Miss Sumaira ne aap ki mein In dono ko ye mail CC kar rahaa hooN. dono se meri iltimaas ho gi ke hamari guftgoo meiN shareek na hoan laikin jub unhaiN lage ke ham dono meiN se apna maa fiz Zameer baree clear andaaz meiN paish kar diya hai oar woh samajhte haiN ke unhoaN ke ghalat support kiya ta toa hameiN zaroor bata daiN"aap jiss kissi ko bhi iss duscussion meiN invite karna chah-aiN mujhe koi aitraaz naheeN.3. Mushtaq baat pata kiya hai ke dalaail to har shakhs ke paas hazaroaN hote haiN. aik dehriaye ke saamne aap baith ja-aye to uss ko "khuda ki existance" bhi saabit naheeN karwai jaa sakti. achhee soach, achha khayal. such ko tasleem karne ki taaqat, oar hidayat ka raasta to Allah taala ki khaas inayaat hoti hai jo qaloob par waarid hotee hai. daamaghoan par naheeN.Mein iss leeaye aap se ye bataiN kar rahaa hooN ke ho saktaa hai aap ke dil ye mere dil ko koi baat bhaa ja-aye. Otheriwse, there is nothing in arguments.So sirf information share keejiaye. arguments ke chakar meiN na paRiaye. meiN aap se mukhtalif sawaalat aap ke ideas ko samajhne ke leeaye hi kar rahaa hooN. aap ko bhi baja-aye aik aik lafz par arguments daine ke baja-aye eemaandaraana tareeqay se apni nuqtaa nazar bayan karna chah-aye.Agar aap kuch relax ho gay hoaN to baat aage chalay?aap ka mukhlis,Muhammad Khawar.


Thu, 21 Dec 2006 Mushtaq to Khawar
aik do mukhtasa guzarishaat,1. aap ne likhaa ke meiN abhi tak aap ki kissi baat par aitraaz nahi kar sakaa. bhai mere ye ghalat fehmi nikaal dijiaye ke meiN aap ki batoaN par aitraaz karne leeaye aap se bataiN kar rahaa hooN. meiN mukhtalif nawaiat ke sawaalat zindigi ke mukhtailf muaamlaat meiN aap ka nuqta nazar jaan-ne ke leeaye kar rahaa hooN. oar umeed kartaa hooN ke in sawaloaN ke jawab meiN aap ke zahn meiN bhi kuch sawaal uth rahaiN hoaN ge oar un ke jawaab aap khudh talaash karaiN ge to yaqeen such ko behtar tor par jaaan sakaiN ge.
Aap sawal poch rahay hain aur main jawabat day raha hoon. Meray her jawab kay baad aap dosra swal kertay hain. Ager aap ko MAAN kay accedent walay ya KHONTAY walay case main meray jawabat main koi aitiraz hai to us ko bayan kerna zarori hai, jaisay aap ab is third case "Bhayi kay Qatil" walay main sawal kay jawab say hi sawal nikal rahay hain. And i feel pleasure to asnwer ur questions. I will try my best to give you satisfactary answers. oar aap ke jawaabaat par mujhe jo aitraaazat thay woaH meiN ne iss leeaye bhi discuss naheeN kiaye ke mein aap se shroo se hi arz kar chukka hooN ke doraan e discussion ghair aham batoaN par time kharch karne se ham asal track se hat jaataiN hain oar meiN aisa naheeN chaata.You have complete right to AITIRAZ on my ansers. Ager aap ko meray jawabat per aitiraz bhi ho aur aap usay SKIP ker jayain to phir aap kay sawal pochnay ka maqsad samajh main nahi aata! Is ka matlab to yeah hota hai ki aap SAWAL hi gair zaroori pooch rahay hain.
2. CC wali baat ki leeaye meiN apni pehli mail meiN se aik quotation day rahaa. iss par nazar daal leejiaye ga."miss sumaira ne. Amir sb ne meri baat ki taaeed ki thi oar Miss Sumaira ne aap ki mein In dono ko ye mail CC kar rahaa hooN. dono se meri iltimaas ho gi ke hamari guftgoo meiN shareek na hoan laikin jub unhaiN lage ke ham dono meiN se apna maa fiz Zameer baree clear andaaz meiN paish kar diya hai oar woh samajhte haiN ke unhoaN ke ghalat support kiya ta toa hameiN zaroor bata daiN"aap jiss kissi ko bhi iss duscussion meiN invite karna chah-aiN mujhe koi aitraaz naheeN.
OK3. Mushtaq baat pata kiya hai ke dalaail to har shakhs ke paas hazaroaN hote haiN. aik dehriaye ke saamne aap baith ja-aye to uss ko "khuda ki existance" bhi saabit naheeN karwai jaa sakti. achhee soach, achha khayal. such ko tasleem karne ki taaqat, oar hidayat ka raasta to Allah taala ki khaas inayaat hoti hai jo qaloob par waarid hotee hai. daamaghoan par naheeN.
Such to such hi rehta hai khawar saab chahay hazaroon dalaail mil ker b sach ko jhot banana chahain to ba nahi bana saktay. "khuda ki existance" bhi saabit naheeN karwai jaa sakti. Asal main kisi aur kay samnay KHUDA ki mojodgi ko sabit kernay kay liyay pehlay KHUD kay EMAN ko pukhta kerna parta hai. Jisay khud KHUDA nahi mila, jis kay DIL main Khuda mojod nahi wo kisi kay zehen main kaisay KHUDA bitha sakta hai. Yaqeen kay mozo per aap hi nay kaha tha, ILM-UL-YAQEEN, AIN-UL-YAQEEN aur HAQ-UL-YAQEEN kay baray main. YAQEEN ki IBTIDA hi us waqt hota hai jab ILM aajayay. Bagair ILM kay aap KHUDA ko sabit nahi ker saktay. Allah ki existance ko sabit kernay kay liyay pehli sharat hi ILM hai. Eman b bagair ILM kay nahi aata khawar sab warna ANBIA aur KITABAIN nahi bhaijtay Allah tala Insaan kay liyay. Aur jis kay EMAN ki base hi ILM ho wahi YAQ-UL-YAQEEN tak ja sakta hai.. Baqol aap ki YAQEEN thread ki post kay Yaqeen ka pehla darza Ilm-ul-Yaqeen. Ager koi yeah kahay ki US KA ALLAH KI HER JAGAH MOJODGI PER YAQEEN HAI.....aur ager waqayi wo YAQEEN kay us darjay per pohoncha hai to us kay liyay ALLAH ki existance sabit kerna bilkul aisa hai jaisay DIN ko DIN sabit kerna.. Mein iss leeaye aap se ye bataiN kar rahaa hooN ke ho saktaa hai aap ke dil ye mere dil ko koi baat bhaa ja-aye. Otheriwse, there is nothing in arguments.
Khawar sab, bagair arguments kay hum BEHES nahi ker saktay. BEHES hoti hi ARGUMENTS kay oper hai. So sirf information share keejiaye. arguments ke chakar meiN na paRiaye. meiN aap se mukhtalif sawaalat aap ke ideas ko samajhne ke leeaye hi kar rahaa hooN. aap ko bhi baja-aye aik aik lafz par arguments daine ke baja-aye eemaandaraana tareeqay se apni nuqtaa nazar bayan karna chah-aye.
Khawar, Arguments hi main to asal information hoti hai. yaqeen janein meray pas waqt ki buhut kami hai. Main behes ko LONG kernay ki koshish nahi ker raha. Yeah to aap ker rahay hain mukhtalif kisam kay CASES kay zariyay.
Humari behes ki ibtida jahan say huwi hai aap us per baat nahi ker rahay hain. Aap nay meri Jang-e-Saffin ki baat per jab muawiyah ka naam AHTARAM say nahi liya to aap nay behes ki ibtida ki. Aap ka moaqqaf ki SAFFIN ki JANG main ALI(AS) bhi haq per thay aur Muawiyah b. Main nay jab aap kay aitiraz per yeah kaha ki " Jang hoti hi us waqt hai jab donon main say ek farik ya donoon hi galat hoon." aur aap nay yeah kaha hai ki "Ek hi jang main donon farikaiN haq per ho saktay hain" aur is ko sabit kernay kay liyay aap nay 3 cases bayan kiyay, jin kay jawabat main already day chuka hoon. Aur mera her jawab meray is nazriyay ko sabit kerta hai ki "HAQ per tazad nahi hota. TAZAD hota hi us waqt hai jab farikain main say EK ya donon hi GALAT hoon." aur galti us waqt hoti hai jab ILM ki kami ho. aur ILM ki kami sy insaan JAHIL ban jata hai, aur JAHALAT hi asal main wo baimari hai jis ki wajah say insan galti ker jata hai, HAQ ko samajh nahi pata.. sahi ko galat aur Jhot ko sach samjhta hai.. Agar aap kuch relax ho gay hoaN to baat aage chalay?
Main hameesha hi relax hota hoon:). So, you can go ahead.


Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 09:18:46 +0000 Khawar to Mushtaq
agle kissi sawal se pehle meiN aik baar phir kuch guzarishaat karooN ga ta ke aap ko kuch bataiN clear ho sakaiN.1. Agar koi baat such na saabit ki jaa sake to uss ye matlab naheeN ke woah such naheeN hota. Oar aap chah-aye "HAQ UL YAQEEN" par hoaN ye laazim naheeN ke aap kissi doore ko haq manwaa sakaiN. Anbia ki zindigi is shay ka saboot hai. ke woah samjhate thay toa samajh sirf uss ko aati thi jis ke dlim meiN Allah SWT hidayat daalte thay. Yaad rakhiaye gaa. Huzooor e pur Noor, aaqa-aye do jahaaN bhi sub yahoodioN ko Allah ki wahdiniat naheeN manwa sake thay. Iss leeaye meiN koi baat dalayal oar behas mubahsaa ke baja-aye exchange of information ke zareeaye kissi ke dil ko raghab karne ko tarjeeH daitaa hooN.2. aap ko ijaazat hai aap jis tarah se chahaiN lay sakte haiN. chaa-hay aap issee behas ka roop daiN ya dicussion ka ya sharing ka.3. Agar aap baazid haiN to meiN safeen ki jang par bhi baat karne keeleeaye tayyar hooN. ham kaise aapni apni baat bayan karaiN gay? aap us hadith ka inkaar kar daiN ge oar iss taraH aap ki paish karda kuch tareekhi hawalaiN oar ahadith paish karaiN ge jinhaiN meiN naheeN maanooN ga toa baat kaise clear ho gi.iss ke leeaye meiN ne aik tajveez paish ki thi ke ham "logic" ki bunyaad par baat karaiN ge oar sirf un batoaN se support laiN ge jo mere oar app donoaN ke leeaye qabil qabool hoaN. iss ke leeaye hamaiN aik doosre ke ideas oar information ka jaaiza laiN. issi ke leeay meiN aap se ye sawalaat kar raha hooN. aap ko bhi ijaazat hai aap jis taraH se chahaiN maire ideas oar information ka jaazia lay sakte haiN.ubb meiN apni agli mail meiN aap se jang e safeen par guftugoo ki tayaari ke leeaye kuch sawaalat poochooN ga agar aap ijaazat daiN toa.us waqt tak ke leeaye ijaazat deejiaye,aap ka mukhlis,Muhammad Khawar.



22Dec; Mushtaq to Khawar

agle kissi sawal se pehle meiN aik baar phir kuch guzarishaat karooN ga ta ke aap ko kuch bataiN clear ho sakaiN.1. Agar koi baat such na saabit ki jaa sake to uss ye matlab naheeN ke woah such naheeN hota. Oar aap chah-aye "HAQ UL YAQEEN" par hoaN ye laazim naheeN ke aap kissi doore ko haq manwaa sakaiN. Anbia ki zindigi is shay ka saboot hai. ke woah samjhate thay toa samajh sirf uss ko aati thi jis ke dlim meiN Allah SWT hidayat daalte thay. Yaad rakhiaye gaa. Huzooor e pur Noor, aaqa-aye do jahaaN bhi sub yahoodioN ko Allah ki wahdiniat naheeN manwa sake thay. Iss leeaye meiN koi baat dalayal oar behas mubahsaa ke baja-aye exchange of information ke zareeaye kissi ke dil ko raghab karne ko tarjeeH daitaa hooN.
Khawar sb, Main is baat say ikhtilaf rakhta hoon. Un logoon nay jinhoon nay Allah Wahdaniat ko nahi mana un main HAT DARMI thi, ANA PARASTI aur KHUD PARASTI thi. Quran is qisam kay logoon kay baray main kehta hai;
Un say jab kaha jata hai ki Allah nay jo ahkam nazil kiyay hain un ki pairwi karo to jawab daitay hain ki "hum to us tareekay ki pairwi karaingay jis per hum nay apnay baap dada ko paya". Acha.ager un kay baap dada nay aqal say kaam na liya ho aur rah-e-rast na payi ho ti kiya yeah phir b yeah unhi ki pairwi kiyay jayaingay? yeah log jinhoon nay Khuda kay batayay huway tareekay per chalnay say inkar kiya in ki halat aisi hai jaisay charwaha janwaroon ko pukarta hai aur wo hank pukar ki sada kay ilawa kuch nahi suntay. Yea behray hain, gongay hain, andhey hain is liyay koi baat in ki samajh main nahi aati (Baqra 169-171).
Aur jab Esayioon nay Allah ki wahdaniat mannay say INKAR kiya to wo tarekhi waqia paish aaya jisay WAQIA-E- MUBALIHA kay naam say yaad kia jata hai, jis kay baray main quran kuch is tarah kehta haii;
"Yeah ilam aajany kay baad ab jab koi is mamlay main tum say jhagra keray to ae Muhammad(saww) us say kaho, "Aao, hum log apnay apnay farzand, apni apni auratein aur apnay apnay nafoos ko bulayein aur Khuda ki bargah main dua karain aur jhotooN per Khuda ki lanat qarar dain." Al-Imran #61.
Aur jab Hazoor(SAWW) apnay Farzand Apni Auratein aur Apnay NAFOOS(Hussain(AS), Hassan (AS) Fatima (AS) aur Ali (AS) .. yani Panjitan pak MUBAHILAY kay liyay tashreef lay jatay hain to in 5 hastiyoon ko daikh ker hi esayi Muhammad(SAWW) say behes hi nahi kertay, aur HAQ ko tasleem kertay hai, MAAN laitay hain ki waqayi Muhammad o Aal-e-Muhammad HAQ per hain...laikin phir bhi HAQ ka rasta nahi apnatay hain. Q ki "Andhey hai, Behray hain, Ghongay hain..un main AQAL nahi... Un ki aqal per TAGHOT sawar hai, Ana parasti hai, Khud Parasti hai.
اللهم بارك على محمد و على آل محمد كما بار كت على إبراهيم و على أل إبراهيم ا نك حميد مجيد
Allahuma barik Ala Muhammadin Wa Ala Aal e Muhammadin kama barakta ala Ibrahima Wa Ala Aal-e-Ibrahim innaka hameedu majeed.
2. aap ko ijaazat hai aap jis tarah se chahaiN lay sakte haiN. chaa-hay aap issee behas ka roop daiN ya dicussion ka ya sharing ka.3. Agar aap baazid haiN to meiN safeen ki jang par bhi baat karne keeleeaye tayyar hooN. ham kaise aapni apni baat bayan karaiN gay? aap us hadith ka inkaar kar daiN ge oar iss taraH aap ki paish karda kuch tareekhi hawalaiN oar ahadith paish karaiN ge jinhaiN meiN naheeN maanooN ga toa baat kaise clear ho gi.
iss ke leeaye meiN ne aik tajveez paish ki thi ke ham "logic" ki bunyaad par baat karaiN ge oar sirf un batoaN se support laiN ge jo mere oar app donoaN ke leeaye qabil qabool hoaN. iss ke leeaye hamaiN aik doosre ke ideas oar information ka jaaiza laiN. issi ke leeay meiN aap se ye sawalaat kar raha hooN. aap ko bhi ijaazat hai aap jis taraH se chahaiN maire ideas oar information ka jaazia lay sakte haiN.
khawar,Main samajhta hoon ki Humein SAFFIN ki jang per ziyada tafseel say tabsra kernay ki zarorat nahi. Saffin ki jang main do group thay. Ek Hazrat Ali(AS) jo ki us waqt kay Khalifa thay aur dosri taraf muawiyah thay. Hum ager Saffin ki JANG per tafseli behes shuroon karaingay to humein phir Jang-e-Jamal ka b zikar kerna paray ga, Phir humein Qatal-e-Usman(RA) aur phir dor-e-khilafat ko b samajhna paray ga. In sab ko samajhnay kay liyay pori TAREEKH daikhni paray gi. Q ki end of season hai, Meray pas in dinoon itna time nahi hoga ki main Hazoor(SAWW) kay baad say her cheez ki tafseel bata sakoon. behtar hai ki aap khud hi TAREEKH-E-ISLAM ko study karein, her RELIGON, MASLAK aur SECT ki kitabon ko parhein to aap ko khud ba khud hi chezein clear hongi phir jab waqt mila to is per bhi behes karaingay. Inshallah!
Main yahan per SAFFIN kay hawalay say sirf ek hi bat karonga, jisay aap nay pinpoint kia aur jo humari behes ki wajah bani..aap kay khayal main "Hazrat Ali(AS) aur Muawiya donon HAQ per thay" jabki meri nazar main Hazrat Ali(AS) aur Muawiyah ka moazna kernay ki zaroorat us waqt paish aayay gi jab donon main MUSHABIHAT ho. Aayein hum aur aap mil ker phir bhi moazna kertay hain aur daikhtay hain ki kahein koi bhi cheez in donoon main Mushtarik hai ya nahi, siwayey is kay ki donon ka WAQT ek tha!
Filhal humein idher udher ki baton main pernay say behtar hai ki MOZOO ko direct shuroo karein jisay aap nay PINPOINT kia. Aap ki nazar main "Muawiya aur Hazrat Ali donon hi HAQ per thay. donon ka muqam ek jaisa tha..aur humein donon ko IZZAT daini chahiyay"..is ko samjhnay kay liyay main aap say kuch sawalat pochonga;
1.. Saffin main Hazrat Ali(AS) aur Muawiya farik thay. Hum Hazrat Ali(AS) kay shajray ko daikhaingay ki Ali(AS) kay BAAP DADA kon thay.phir Ali(AS) ki Aulad kon thi? isi tarah Muawiyah kay BAAP DADA kon thay aur un ki AULAD kaisi thi?
2. Ali(AS) ka kirdar aur Islam kay liyay khidmat kia thein? aur Muawiya ka kirdar aur Islam kay liyay un ki KHIDMAT kia thein?
3. Ali(AS) ka Hazoor(SAWW) say taluk kab say aur kis kisam ka raha? Aur mowayiah ka kaisa?
4. Ali(AS) ka EMAN, Baseerat, Aqal aur Fehem kay baray main duniya kia kehti hai? Islam ki pehli jang BADR..phir OHUD, KHANDAK,KHAIBER,HUNAIN jaisay mokon per Islam kay liyay ALI(AS) nay kia kiya aur Moawiya ki kaisi khidmat rahein?
5. Ali(AS) ki aulad nay ISLAM kay liyay kaisi qurbaniyan dein aur MOWAIYA ki aulad nay Islam kay sath kia kia?
Ummed hai ki aap in sawalon ka gair-janibdari say jawab daingay.
ubb meiN apni agli mail meiN aap se jang e safeen par guftugoo ki tayaari ke leeaye kuch sawaalat poochooN ga agar aap ijaazat daiN toa.
IJAZAT MAANG KR SHARMINDA NA KAREIN.. AAP KO KHULI IJAZAT HAI AAP KO KEHNA CHAHEIN YA JO POCHNA CHAHEIN..LAIKIN MERAY OOPER WALAY SAWALT KAY JAWAB KO NA BHOLIYAY GA.. us waqt tak ke leeaye ijaazat deejiaye,
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 10:21:36 +0000 Khawar to Mushtaq
Walaikum us Salam Mushtaq,aap ne likhaa,"Khawar sb, Main is baat say ikhtilaf rakhta hoon. Un logoon nay jinhoon nay Allah Wahdaniat ko nahi mana un main HAT DARMI thi, ANA PARASTI aur KHUD PARASTI thi. Quran is qisam kay logoon kay baray main kehta hai;"Ji mushtaq meiN aap ki iss baat se ittefaq kartaa hooN oar mair mudda bhi yahi thaa ke jub koi hat dharam ho ja-aye to uss manwayaa nahi jaa saktaa. oar mazay ke baat ye hai ke dono aik doosre ko hat dharam kehte haiN oar donoaN ke apni apni support ke leeaye log bhi mil jaa-taiN haiN. jaise daikhiaye Qadiani, Rafidi parvaizi waghairaa. [:)].ji uss ke baad aap ne farmaya," khawar,Hum nay us baat per behes kerna hai jo aap nay pinpoint kiya tha. Main samajhta hoon ki Humein SAFFIN ki jang per ziyada tafseel say tabsra kernay ki zarorat nahi. Saffin ki jang main do group thay. Ek Hazrat Ali(AS) jo ki us waqt kay Khalifa thay aur dosri taraf muawiyah thay. Hum ager Saffin ki JANG per tafseli behes shuroon karaingay to humein phir Jang-e-Jamal ka b zikar kerna paray ga, Phir humein Qatal-e-Usman(RA) aur phir dor-e-khilafat ko tareekh aur haqayiq ki nazar main samajhna paray ga."Mushtaq mera khayal hai agar Shahadat e Usman (RA) se shroo kar liayaa ja-aye to bhi baat samajh aa sakti hai. Because khilaafat meiN uss se pehle walay muamalat par baat ho gi to baat aage baRay gi hi naheeN [:)]. kyoonke woah ikhtalaaf toa aap jaantaiN haiN ke bilkul buniadi hai. agar aap bohat ziada zaroori samajhte hoaN tao uss par bhi baat ho sakti hay laikin phir mujhe Khadshah hai ke Saffeen tak aana bohat mushkil ho ja-aye ga. haaN agar ham shahadat e Usaman RA se shroo karte haiN toa Intekhaab Ali KW se jang e jamal oar phir Safeen tak jaane meiN koi khaas qabahat nazar naheeN aati. baaqi jaise aap ki marzi.oar iss ke baad aap ne kuch sawaalat keeaye haiN jin meiN Hazrat Ali KW oar Hazrat Ali ke comparison keeaya hai. toa meiN arz kartaa chalooN ke donoaN ke Ameer Muawiya RA ki izzat karne ka ye matlab naheeN leeaye jaa saktaa ke meiN Hazrat Ali KW ki buzargi ka qaael naheeN hooN. bhayaa aap kyooN mairi aaqbat ke peechay paRaiN haiN [:)]. Agar aap ke leeaye maira jawab qabil e tashsaffii naheeN hai oar app baazid hooN sawaaloaN ke jawab ke leeaye toa leejiaye.1.. Saffin main Hazrat Ali(AS) aur Muawiya farik thay. Hum Hazrat Ali(AS) kay shajray ko daikhaingay ki Ali(AS) kay BAAP DADA kon thay.phir Ali(AS) ki Aulad kon thi? isi tarah Muawiyah kay BAAP DADA kon thay aur un ki AULAD kaisi thi?Musthaq, ye koi achha sawaal naheeN hai. baap daada ki nisbat se ehteraamm to kar saktaa hai laikin Allah ke haaN izzat ka maiyaar "taqwa" oar "parhaizgaari" hai. Hazrat Ali ki "Fazeelat" oar bohat si batoaN se saabit shuda hai.2. Ali(AS) ka kirdar aur Islam kay liyay khidmat kia thein? aur Muawiya ka kirdar aur Islam kay liyay un ki KHIDMAT kia thein?Abhi tak meiN ne jo parha hai uss ke mutaabiq Hazrat Ali KW ki khidmaat Islam ke leeaye be intehaa haiN.3. Ali(AS) ka Hazoor(SAWW) say taluk kab say aur kis kisam ka raha? Aur mowayiah ka kaisa?Suhabi e rasool hone ke wajaa se dono "Razi allah taala anhoa" meiN aate haiN. oar qaraabat daari meiN hazrat Ali KW ko bohat fazeelat hai.4. Ali(AS) ka EMAN, Baseerat, Aqal aur Fehem kay baray main duniya kia kehti hai? Islam ki pehli jang BADR..phir OHUD, KHANDAK,KHAIBER,HUNAIN jaisay mokon per Islam kay liyay ALI(AS) nay kia kiya aur Moawiya ki kaisi khidmat rahein?wohi baat hoee na. aap mukhtalif hawaloaN se baat kar rahaiN jub ke meiN wazeh keh chukaa hooN ke bohat se muamlaat meiN Hazrat Ali KW ko fazeelat hai. bohat se ka lafz meiN iss leeaye isteAmaal kar rahaa hooN ke dono hi insaan thay. ho saktaa hai ke zidigi ka koi aik ais pehloo bhi ho jis meiN Hazrat Ameer Muwiaz RA ko fazeelat ho. Ahl e sunnah ke nazdeek Hazrat Ameer Muwia ko katib Wahi hone ki fazeelat hasil hai. ( agar aap ke leeaye ye baat qaabil e aitraaz ho bhi toa ham iss par behas keeaye baghair age guzar sakte haiN. taa ke aap ka qeemti waq bach sake oar ham doosre aham muaamlaat ko ziaada study kar sakaiN)5. Ali(AS) ki aulad nay ISLAM kay liyay kaisi qurbaniyan dein aur MOWAIYA ki aulad nay Islam kay sath kia kia?ye to Azhar um minash shams hai. mujhe aap ke iss comparison par hairat bhi hai oar dukh bhi.leejiaye ye to thay aap ke sawaalat. ubb ataiN haiN shahadat e Usman RA par. meiN mukhtasiran apni maaloomat share kartaa hooN koshish karooN ga sirf woah maaloomat share karooN jin par aap bhi yaqeen rakhte haiN. oar iss ki baas par baat aagee baRhay gi. agar aap ko kissi baat se ikhtelaaf ho ga to meiN uss information ko nikaalne ke leeaye tayyar hooN ga.1. Madina meiN Muaamlaat (chahe koi bhi waja rahi hoa agar aap wajaa par baat zaroor karna chahte haoN toa zaroor add kar sakte haiN. maire leeaye woah koi itni aham naheeN hai) kharaab ho gay oar giroah Hazrat usmaan Ghani RA ko qatal karnaa chahtaa thaa.2. ye baat madina ke akkabar suahaab ke ilm meiN thi Hatta ke Hazrat Ali KW ne Hazrat Ali ki hifaazat ke leeaye Hasnain RA ko bhi maamoor kiya.3. Hazrat Usmaan Ra ne mana farmaya ke meiN ummat muslimaa ke khilaaf talwaar uthane ki ijaazat naheeN dooN ga.4. chanache pehaa katal huwa oar woah bhi teesre khalifaa "Hazrat usmaan RA" ka.5. Hazrat usmaan RA ki shahadaat se pehle ya fori baad, koi khaanaa jangi na hoee. Muslimaan muslimaanoaN par talwaar uthane se darte rahay. oar bagheeoN ka madinaa par hold ho gia.aap yaqeenun bohat jald kuch naazuk muaamlat par discuss karnaa chah rahaiN hoaN ge laikin maire aap ke maire darmayan ikhtilaaf tao kissi aik lafz par ho saktaa hai. laikin meiN un nazuk hadisaat par baat karne se pehle pasand karooN ga ke ham kuch aisa mawaad ikathaa kar laiN jin se ham donoaN muttafiq hoaN oar unhee ko base bana bana kar aahistaa aahistaa aage chalaiN.Duago,Muhammad Khawar.









Reply of above from Mushtaq


Salam,Ji mushtaq meiN aap ki iss baat se ittefaq kartaa hooN oar mair mudda bhi yahi thaa ke jub koi hat dharam ho ja-aye to uss manwayaa nahi jaa saktaa. oar mazay ke baat ye hai ke dono aik doosre ko hat dharam kehte haiN oar donoaN ke apni apni support ke leeaye log bhi mil jaa-taiN haiN. jaise daikhiaye Qadiani, Rafidi parvaizi waghairaa. [:)].
Mubahila kay waqia ko shayad aap nay nazar andaz kia halanki is waqiay ki ahmiat buhut ziyada hai. Q ki mubahilay ka hukam QURAN nay diya is tarah ki ""...Aao, hum log apnay apnay farzand, apni apni auratein aur apnay apnay NAFOOS (OURSELVES) ko bulayein aur Khuda ki bargah main dua karein.." Aur jahan tak main samajhta hoon aap is waqiay ki ahmiat ko ager na samajh sakay to phir baat ko aagany barhana hi fazool hai. Q ki HAT DARMI kay bawajod Mubahila main HAQ samnay aaya.
Thus a peace treaty was signed on the terms that the Christians of Najran would thereby be committed to pay the Holy Prophet an annual tribute consisting of two thousand costumes-worth: forty thousand Dinars, thirty horses, thirty camels, thirty armors and thirty spears. (Meraj-un-Nabuwat)
The event of the Mubahala is important for the following reasons:
01. It proved to be a silencing lesson for all the Christians of Arabia who no longer dared any competition with the Holy Prophet (S.A.W).
02. The invitation of 'Mubahala' was directed by God, and it was in compliance with His Command that the Holy Prophet took his Ahl-ul-Bait along with him to the field of 'Mubahala'. This serves to generalize how affairs pertaining to Apostleship and the religion of God are determined by the Will of God; allowing no margin of interference from the common people (Ummat). The matter of Hazrat Ali's succession followed by eleven Imams to the office of religious leadership should be viewed in this perspective.
03. The indispensability of Hazrat Ali, Janab-e-Fatima, Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain in following the precepts of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) could no longer be disputed.
04. That notwithstanding their childhood, Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain did nevertheless, serve as the active partners of the Holy Prophet in the field of 'Mubahala'. This yields the conclusion that age is no criteria for the greatness of the infallibles (Masoom). They are born adorned with virtues and knowledge.
05. That the Holy Prophet's act of having preferred a few obviously elevates their status above all others.
Why was Imam Ali included?
The Almighty commanded His Messenger to say to the delegation of Najran: "Come! We will summon our Sons and your Sons, our women and your women; and ourselves and yourselves...."
In compliance with this command, the Prophet brought with him, Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain, because they were the sons of his daughter Fatima, and for this they are his sons. He brought Fatima with him because she represents the women from the members of his House. But why did he bring with him Imam Ali who was neither from the sons nor from the women?
Imam Ali has no place in the verse unless he is included in the word "ourselves."
Bringing Imam Ali with him indicates that the Messenger of God considered Imam Ali an extension of his personality. By considering him so, he elevated him above all the Muslims.
The Messenger said on many occasions: "Ali is from me and I am from him."
Hubshi Ibn Janadah reported that he heard the Messenger of God, saying:
"Ali is from me and I am from him, and no one represents me but Ali."
Authentic Proofs are quoted below regarding the Ayat of the Holy Qur'an-Sura 3-verse 61 as given on page 73 Imam Fakhruddin Razi writes in his Tafseer-e-Kabeer (volume 2): "When this verse was revealed to the Holy Prophet, the Christians of Najran accepted the challenge of 'Mubahala' and the Holy Prophet took along with him Imam Hussain, Imam Hasan, Janab-e-Fatima and Hazrat Ali to the field of Mubahala."
To quote Allama Zamakhshari in his 'Tafseer-e-Kashshaf'. "There can be no more authentic and stronger evidence for the integrity of Ashab-e-Kisa, i.e., Hazrat Ali, Janab-e-Fatima, Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain than this Qur'anic verse. For in compliance with the order of God the Holy Prophet summoned his Ahl-ul-Bait, took Hussain in his arms, and grasped Imam Hasan's hand in his own, asked Janab-e-Fatima to follow him and Hazrat Ali to follow her. This proved that the Holy Ahl-ul-Bait were those to whom the Qur'anic verse was directed."
It is related by Soad Ibne Waqas that: "When this verse was revealed, the Holy Prophet sent for Hazrat Ali, Janab-e-Fatima, Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain and prayed to God thus: "O My God! These are the very Ahl-ul-Bait of mine!" (Sahih Muslim. Vol. 1, Sahih Tirmizi.)
Abdullah Ibne Umar quotes the Holy Prophet to have commented:
"Had there been any soul on the whole earth better than Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain, God would have commanded me to take them along with me to 'Mubahala'. But as they were superior in dignity and respect to all human beings, God confined His Choice on them only for participation in 'Mubahala'". (Tasfeer-e-Baizavi)
According to some versions it is stated that on the morning of 24th Zilhajj, a large number of people thronged the door of the Holy Prophet, every one anticipating his chance to be selected for the team of 'Mubahala'. But when the Holy Prophet emerged out of his house accompanied by his 'Ahl-ul-Bait'. They were all stunned.
"
ji uss ke baad aap ne farmaya," khawar,Hum nay us baat per behes kerna hai jo aap nay pinpoint kiya tha. Main samajhta hoon ki Humein SAFFIN ki jang per ziyada tafseel say tabsra kernay ki zarorat nahi. Saffin ki jang main do group thay. Ek Hazrat Ali(AS) jo ki us waqt kay Khalifa thay aur dosri taraf muawiyah thay. Hum ager Saffin ki JANG per tafseli behes shuroon karaingay to humein phir Jang-e-Jamal ka b zikar kerna paray ga, Phir humein Qatal-e-Usman(RA) aur phir dor-e-khilafat ko tareekh aur haqayiq ki nazar main samajhna paray ga."Mushtaq mera khayal hai agar Shahadat e Usman (RA) se shroo kar liayaa ja-aye to bhi baat samajh aa sakti hai. Because khilaafat meiN uss se pehle walay muamalat par baat ho gi to baat aage baRay gi hi naheeN [:)]. kyoonke woah ikhtalaaf toa aap jaantaiN haiN ke bilkul buniadi hai. agar aap bohat ziada zaroori samajhte hoaN tao uss par bhi baat ho sakti hay laikin phir mujhe Khadshah hai ke Saffeen tak aana bohat mushkil ho ja-aye ga. haaN agar ham shahadat e Usaman RA se shroo karte haiN toa Intekhaab Ali KW se jang e jamal oar phir Safeen tak jaane meiN koi khaas qabahat nazar naheeN aati. baaqi jaise aap ki marzi.
Khawar, yahi to mujhey samajh nahi aati ki jab DEEN islam hai to phir shurooh say hi IKHTILAF q aaya? ..khair, jaisay aap kahein hum wahein say baat aagay barhaingay.:)oar iss ke baad aap ne kuch sawaalat keeaye haiN jin meiN Hazrat Ali KW oar Hazrat Ali ke comparison keeaya hai. toa meiN arz kartaa chalooN ke donoaN ke Ameer Muawiya RA ki izzat karne ka ye matlab naheeN leeaye jaa saktaa ke meiN Hazrat Ali KW ki buzargi ka qaael naheeN hooN. bhayaa aap kyooN mairi aaqbat ke peechay paRaiN haiN [:)]. Main kidher peechay para hoon aap khud hi apni aaqbat kay peechay paray hain Agar aap ke leeaye maira jawab qabil e tashsaffii naheeN hai oar app baazid hooN sawaaloaN ke jawab ke leeaye toa leejiaye.1.. Saffin main Hazrat Ali(AS) aur Muawiya farik thay. Hum Hazrat Ali(AS) kay shajray ko daikhaingay ki Ali(AS) kay BAAP DADA kon thay.phir Ali(AS) ki Aulad kon thi? isi tarah Muawiyah kay BAAP DADA kon thay aur un ki AULAD kaisi thi?Musthaq, ye koi achha sawaal naheeN hai. baap daada ki nisbat se ehteraamm to kar saktaa hai laikin Allah ke haaN izzat ka maiyaar "taqwa" oar "parhaizgaari" hai. Hazrat Ali ki "Fazeelat" oar bohat si batoaN se saabit shuda hai.
Baap Dada ki tarbiat ka aser sab say ziyada hota hai insaan per. Aur Aulad ki tarbiat say Baap Dada ki asliat ka pata chal jata hai. Ager kisi nay Baap Dada ki gair-e-taqwa tarbiat say hat ker TAQWA ikhtiyar kia hai to us ka taqwa us ki aulad ki tarbiat main bhi zahir hota hai. Yeah ek fitari cheez hai. Meray baap dada ager MUTTAQI na thay laikin ager main nay TAQWA ikhtiyar kiya to meri Aulad ko b TAQWA wala mahol milay ga na! aur un ki tarbiat bhi usi hisab say hogi. Waisey shukar hai ki aap nay TAQWA kay mamlay main Hazrat Ali (AS) ko fazeelat di hai. 2. Ali(AS) ka kirdar aur Islam kay liyay khidmat kia thein? aur Muawiya ka kirdar aur Islam kay liyay un ki KHIDMAT kia thein?Abhi tak meiN ne jo parha hai uss ke mutaabiq Hazrat Ali KW ki khidmaat Islam ke leeaye be intehaa haiN.
Agreed. q ki Ali(AS) to paidayish say hi Sarkar-e-do-alam ki parwarish main rahay hain. Isi liyay to Hazoor (SAWW) akser kehtay rahay hain ki "Ali Mujh say hai aur Main Ali say".3. Ali(AS) ka Hazoor(SAWW) say taluk kab say aur kis kisam ka raha? Aur mowayiah ka kaisa?Suhabi e rasool hone ke wajaa se dono "Razi allah taala anhoa" meiN aate haiN. oar qaraabat daari meiN hazrat Ali KW ko bohat fazeelat hai.
Sahabi Rasool aur As-hab-e-Kisa ya Ahl-e-bait main kuch to farak hoga Khawar sab.4. Ali(AS) ka EMAN, Baseerat, Aqal aur Fehem kay baray main duniya kia kehti hai? Islam ki pehli jang BADR..phir OHUD, KHANDAK,KHAIBER,HUNAIN jaisay mokon per Islam kay liyay ALI(AS) nay kia kiya aur Moawiya ki kaisi khidmat rahein?wohi baat hoee na. aap mukhtalif hawaloaN se baat kar rahaiN jub ke meiN wazeh keh chukaa hooN ke bohat se muamlaat meiN Hazrat Ali KW ko fazeelat hai. bohat se ka lafz meiN iss leeaye isteAmaal kar rahaa hooN ke dono hi insaan thay. ho saktaa hai ke zidigi ka koi aik ais pehloo bhi ho jis meiN Hazrat Ameer Muwiaz RA ko fazeelat ho. Ahl e sunnah ke nazdeek Hazrat Ameer Muwia ko katib Wahi hone ki fazeelat hasil hai. ( agar aap ke leeaye ye baat qaabil e aitraaz ho bhi toa ham iss par behas keeaye baghair age guzar sakte haiN. taa ke aap ka qeemti waq bach sake oar ham doosre aham muaamlaat ko ziaada study kar sakaiN)
Main yahan per phir aitiraz karonga. Quran kehta hai;
"...bas Allah ka irada hai ki ae Ahl-e-bait ki tum say her burayi ko dor rakhay aur is tarah pak-o-pakeeza rakhay jo pak-o-pakeeza rakhnay ka haq hai." (33:33)
Aap sirf yeah keh ker ki muawiya katib-e-wahi thay, halanki wahi to us waqt say nazil ho rahi thi jab buhut saray KATIBON nay Islam qabol hi nahi kia tha. Ab ager kisi nay Quran ki kuch aayat ki kitabat ki hai to us ka hum un say to moazna nahi na ker saktay jin ka har amal quran say bahir na tha!
When i was studying in China, humaray ek junior hotay thay Pakistan Armi kay Hawaldar, he was about 50 years old. Ramazan main tarawi ki IMAMAT kertay thay q ki wo Hafiz thay. Ek din ramazan main hi friday night ko foreign students nay music programe rakha.......and i found that Hafiz sab in Disco with some girls and a glass of beer in his hand. Jab mujhey daikha to ek dam kehnay lagay ki "Piyas lagi thi is liyay kisi nay JUICE diya hai peenay ko" even i didnt asked anything. 5. Ali(AS) ki aulad nay ISLAM kay liyay kaisi qurbaniyan dein aur MOWAIYA ki aulad nay Islam kay sath kia kia?ye to Azhar um minash shams hai. mujhe aap ke iss comparison par hairat bhi hai oar dukh bhi.
Ab lazmi baat hai comparison kerna hai to sirf do ka hi nahi pori nasal ka karna paray ga na.:)leejiaye ye to thay aap ke sawaalat. ubb ataiN haiN shahadat e Usman RA par. meiN mukhtasiran apni maaloomat share kartaa hooN koshish karooN ga sirf woah maaloomat share karooN jin par aap bhi yaqeen rakhte haiN. oar iss ki baas par baat aagee baRhay gi. agar aap ko kissi baat se ikhtelaaf ho ga to meiN uss information ko nikaalne ke leeaye tayyar hooN ga.1. Madina meiN Muaamlaat (chahe koi bhi waja rahi hoa agar aap wajaa par baat zaroor karna chahte haoN toa zaroor add kar sakte haiN. maire leeaye woah koi itni aham naheeN hai) kharaab ho gay oar giroah Hazrat usmaan Ghani RA ko qatal karnaa chahtaa thaa.
Shayad zarorat paray un halat per roshni dalnay ki jin ki wajah say Khalifa qatal huway.2. ye baat madina ke akkabar suahaab ke ilm meiN thi Hatta ke Hazrat Ali KW ne Hazrat Ali ki hifaazat ke leeaye Hasnain RA ko bhi maamoor kiya.
Can u give me some refrences about it? q ki main aisi baat mannay kay liyay tayyar nahi ki jo Shair-e-Khuda hai aur jis ka her aqdam Allah ki raza kay liyay hai wo MOAT aur SHAHADAT say dar ker apni hi aulad ko apni JAAN ki hifazat per mamoor karay.3. Hazrat Usmaan Ra ne mana farmaya ke meiN ummat muslimaa ke khilaaf talwaar uthane ki ijaazat naheeN dooN ga.4. chanache pehaa katal huwa oar woah bhi teesre khalifaa "Hazrat usmaan RA" ka.5. Hazrat usmaan RA ki shahadaat se pehle ya fori baad, koi khaanaa jangi na hoee. Muslimaan muslimaanoaN par talwaar uthane se darte rahay. oar bagheeoN ka madinaa par hold ho gia.
Hazrat Usman (RA) ka qatal bazat-e-khud kia ek buhut bari KHANA JANGI nahi kehlayay gi?aap yaqeenun bohat jald kuch naazuk muaamlat par discuss karnaa chah rahaiN hoaN ge laikin maire aap ke maire darmayan ikhtilaaf tao kissi aik lafz par ho saktaa hai. laikin meiN un nazuk hadisaat par baat karne se pehle pasand karooN ga ke ham kuch aisa mawaad ikathaa kar laiN jin se ham donoaN muttafiq hoaN oar unhee ko base bana bana kar aahistaa aahistaa aage chalaiN.
Again wahi baat ki...meri aakhirat meray sath hai aap ki aap kay sath. Allah hum donon ko wo wala rasta dikhayay jo sahi hai.
Allah Hafiz
MushtaqDuago,Muhammad Khawar.
Salam Musthaq,Agar aap waqia Mubahilaa se Hazrat Ali KW ki azmat, barHai, oar Hazoor Akram SAWW se nisbaat ka izhaar karna chah-taiN haiN to aap ne time waiste kiya. in batoaN se bhala mujhe kab inkaar?
Haan. Aap kehtay hain ki aap ko inkar nahi..laikin hairat hai ki phir bhi aap kisi b dosray sahabi ko Ali(AS) say ziyada fazeelat daitay hain. Baat ho rahi hai HAQ aur BATIL ki...jisay dosray lafzon main ISLAM aur KUFR ka ja sakta hai..
HAQEEQI ISLAM ko hum kahan say samjhein??
Her musalman bashamool e aap, yeah jawab day ga... Quran-o-Sunnat say.. hai na?? Quran toa Kitabi shakal main mojood hai..ab SUNNAT ka sahi pata kahan say lagayein? Muhammad(SAWW) ka her qoal aur fael ko hi SUNNAT kehtay hain na?? Ab humein un kay "HER QOAL-O-FAEL" yani Her AMAL aur her baat ka kahan say pata chalay ga??
Lazmi baat hai Gher kay Sarbarah kay her qoal-o-fael ka ghar waloon ko sab say ziyada ilam hota hai na!!..
Aap kay Walid /walida kay mutalliq aap say ziyada kon janay ga?? aap say ziyada kon un kay liyay DARD rakhay ga?? Aap say ziyada un ki zarorat aur sehat ka kon khayal rakhay ga?? Jinhoon nay aap ki her lamhay parwarish ki un kay sab say qareebi aap hi huway na?
Ali(AS) ki nisbat Muhammad(SAWW) say waisi hi hai. Ali(SA) jis nay aankh kholtay hi Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAWW) kay chehra-e-pur noor ki ziyarat ki. Jo Nabi(SAWW) ki goad main pala. Jis ka her fael Sunnat-e-Nabwi say hat ker nahi hota. Hum Ali(AS) ko Nabi nahi kehtay, aur na hi aisa koi keh sakta hai.. na hi un ko hum wo darja daitay hain jo nabi ko diya jata hai. Hum to Ali(AS) ko Muhammad(SAWW) ka khadim, sathi aur BHAYI kehtay huway buhut fakhar mehsos kertay hain.. Hum to Ali(AS) ko wo darwaza samajhtay hain jo humein Shehr-e-Ilam, Khatim-ul-Mursalim tak pohonchata hai. Jahan humein DEEN milta hai. Hum ager us ki nisbat na dain to hum Rasool-e-Khuda tak kaisay pohonchain? DEEN ko kaisay samjhein?? Ab jab aap khud kehtay hain ki is nisbat say aap inkar nahi kertay..to phir aap kaisay UN ko galat samajh kay kisi dosray teesray ko.. pata nahi kahan, kis kay hathoon kaisi parwarish huwi thi...... sahi samajh saktay hain?? Jab aap ko is nisbat ka pata hai to kia aap un ka kisi bhi shakhs say SAHABI keh ker moazna karain, aur sirf is liyay ki un SAHABI nay QURAN kay kuch AYAT ki kitabat ki thi... fazeelat dain... I told u a story about a HAWALDAR of my university in my last mail. Ab ager aap yeah kahein ki Ali(AS) gunah ker saktay hain to is ka matlab to yeah huwa ki aap nawozubillah Hazrat Muhammad (SAWW) ki tarbiyat aur hidayat kernay wali salahiat per hi shak ker rahay hain. Yeah kaisay ho sakta hai ki Muhummad(AS) jo tamam alam ko SACH ki HIDAYAT kay liyay aayay aur UN ki tarbiat nahi ker sakay jinhein unhoon nay apni goad main pala....Think on it please!
Khawar, Ager aap kay walid ka koi MAQSAD/ koi CAUSE(KOI SCHOOL, KOI MADARSA, KOI FACTORY,NGO JAHAN BUHUT SARAY LOGON KO ROZGAR KA MOKA MILAY ETC.) ho, aur aap kay walid nay aap ki tarbiyat hi usi cause ki hifazat kernay wali ki ho. Ab ager koi aap kay walid kay cause ko, jo ki aap kay liyay, aap kay gher waloon aur khandan walay aur hamsayoon kay liyay, acha hai, koi nuksan pohonchayay ga to sab say ziyada dukh kis ko hoga? sab say ziyada effect kon hoga? Aap hongay na...... aap kay gher walay hongay, wo wo log hongay jo us cause say munsalik thay.
Aur kia wo aap ka dost ho sakta hai jo aap kay Walid kay us cause ko nuksan pohonchata hai jo tum sab kay liyay acha hai? aur jo Walid nay aap per FARAZ karar diya hai? Kia aap apnay walid kay us azeem CAUSE ki hifazat nahi karaingay jo buhut say logon say munsalik hai?? Kia aap apnay us faraz ko nahi nibhayaingay jo aap kay walid nay aap per dala hai? ager aap main aap kay BAAP ka khon aur aap kay baap nay PARWARISH main koi kami nahi rakhi hai toa aap jaan day daingay laikin BAAP kay cause ko nuksan nahi pohonchayaingay.
Meray khayal main baat aap ko ab to samajh aani chahiyay. Aap apnay aap say moazna karain.. jaisay aap is waqt mujh say behes ker rahay hain shayad is ki wajah bhi yahi hai ki aap isay apnay WALID ka cause samajh rahay hain.aur apnay hisab say SACH..Q ki aap ki tarbiat waisay mahool main huwi hai..aur aap ko ilam hi waisa mila hai... aur yeah soch rahay hain ki aap SAHI ker rahay hain...to kia wo log, jin kay EMAN, Ilam aur MUKAM ko khud Quran nay bataya.. aur aap khud un ki haqeeqat ko samajhtay hain.. Kia wo apnay GHER kay cause ko nuksan pohonchta daikh saktay hain? Kia wo, jin ki tarbiat BAAP ban ker khud Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAWW) nay ki, kia wo amanat main khayant ker saktay hain? Kia wo koi aisa kaam ker saktay hain jo DEEN kay against ho, jo INSAAF kay against ho?? Jo ISLAM (PEACE) na ho? Aray bhayi wo to Paida hotay hi Nabi kay hatoon main khailay koday hain. Un ka to her amal nabi kay amal ki tashbeh hai. Mujh, aap aur buhut saron kay mutalliq sab say ziyada ILAM unhi kay pas hi hoga na Deen-e-Muhammadi(SAWW) ka jin ki parwarish Muhammad nay khud ki hai. Ab jo UN ka dushman hai wo Muhammad ka Dushman huwa na!...Aur jis nay Muhummad(SAWW) kay dushman ko dost rakha us nay Muhummad(SAWW) say dushmani ki na!!.... main kaisay us ko RAZI ALLA TALA ANHU keh sakta hoon?? Main to yeah samajhta hoon ki ager main nay galti say bhi kisi aisay ko jis nay ISLAM ko nuksan pohonchaya, ya pohonchanay ki koshish ki us kay HAQ main dua karonga to main nay bhi us kay sath Deen ko nuksan pohonchanay main haath bataya.
Ab main kaisay us ko HAZRAT kahoon jis nay apnay baitay ki perwarish apnay cause..yani ISLAM ko nuksan pohonchanay walay maqsad kay hasool kay liyay ki, aur Karbala main Yazeed Ibn-e-moawiya kay hathoon Hussain Ibn-e-Ali(AS) ki shahadat nay us cause ko jis kay liyay Ali(AS) nay bhi jang lari thi..tareekh main rakam ker kay duniya ko HAQ dikha diya. Ab aap hi dua keejiyay ga ki Allah Yazeed say Razi ho jayein..jis nay us ka khandan waloon samait khone kia jis ka zikar Quran main Muhammad(SAWW) kay Farzand kay toar per aaya!. ..main to Yazeed ko Dushman-e-Islam hi samjhonga. Aur usay bhi dushman-e-Islam samjhonga jis nay us ki aisi parwarish ki... aur Dushman-e-Islam say to Khuda razi nahi hota.. aur un ko jinhoon nay HAQ ko roknay ki koshish ki aur DEEN main bigar paida ki, aur un ko jinhoon nay is BIGAR main izafa kia.. HAQ tak pohonchnay say dosray buhut soon ko roka.. hum kaisa Ahl-e-Bait ka aur DEEN ka dost samajh saktay hain?
haan aik baat jo aap ne ki ke,"Bringing Imam Ali with him indicates that the Messenger of God considered Imam Ali an extension of his personality. By considering him so, he elevated him above all the Muslims"Extension of his personality? ye kia hotaa hai. Jo ki quran ki baat “ANFUSE-NAA“OURSELVES” ko pora kerta hai. :)aap se darkhaast hai ki arabic ayaa par bhi aik nazar daal leejiaye. ye daikhiaye"abnaa ee na wa abnaa ee kum, wa nissaa ee naa wa nissa ee kum wa unfusee naa wa un fu see kum"mujhe thori si arabic ki samajh aatee hay. aap ko maashaallah ziadaa samajh aatee ho gi. "naa" ka seeghaa hamaisha "ham" yani aik se ziadaa ke leeaye isteAmaal huwa hai. ye bilkul basic baat hai. oar kissi kism ka abhaam naheeN hai.ub choonke ayaa mubarika meiN "unfusee naa" ka lafz istemaal huwa tao matlab huwa aik se ziaada nafas. Yani huzoor akram SAWW aik jaan(nafs) oar Hazrat Ali KW aik alaihda jaan (nafs). tabhee to unfusinaa "ourselves" poora hoga.
Khawar bara afsos huwa aap ki is baat say.. HAQ language ka muhtaj nahi hota.. roshni kahein bhi roshni hi rehti hai.. Chalein is per ziyada behes nahi kertay, aap hi kay above TARJUMAY ko sahi qarar daitay hain. tabhee to unfusinaa "ourselves" poora hoga. OK.. "OURSELVES" ko to Ali(AS) nay pora kia na. .. koi aur q nahi layay Hazor(SAWW) "ourselves" main? Kia us waqt SAHABIYON ki kami thi? Nahi...... koi kami nahi thi.. Islaam kafi mazboot ho chuka tha. Buhut saray SAHABI(SA) available thay.. laikin Muhammad (SAWW) nay "OURSELVES" ko proa sirf Ali(AS) ko sath lay ker hi kiya. Kia yahi ek baat kafi nahi hai Ali(AS) ki tamam sahaba per Fazeelat kay aitibar say?.. Fazeelat hum nahi daitay Ali(AS) ko, un ko to Fazeelat unhi nay dee hai jisay aap aur hum Srakar-e-Do Alam kehtay hain. Jisay hum Khatamul Mrsalleen kehtay hain. Aur unhein fazeelat QURAN nay di hai.. hum nahi daitay. Hum un ko Khadim-e-Mustafa kehtay hain..na ki nabi .. Humein un Ashab-e-Kisa aur Ahl-e-Bait say muhubbat hai. Humein Aal-e-Ibrahim aur Aal-e-Muhammad say muhubbat hai. is liyay hum un say muhubbat nahi ho sakti jis nay Muhammad o Aal-e-Muhammad(SAWW) say nafrat aur dushmani rakhi ho.. ya jinhoon nay un kay dushmanon say dosti rakhi ho. Hum is baat ko samajhtay hain ki Ali(AS) wo kari hain jo Aal-e-Muhammad aur Aal-e-Ibrahim ka ko milati hai. Aap khud rozana darood bhaijtay hain
"اللهم صلي على محمد و على آل محمد كما صليت على إبراهيم و على أل إبراهيم ا نك حميد مجيد
"Allahumma salle ala Muhammad wo "Aal-e-Muhammad" kama sallaita ala "Ibrahim wa Aal-e-Ibrahim" innaka hameedumajeed."
Kon hain Aal-e-Ibrahim? Kia Ali(AS) ki ragoon main wahi khon-e-Ibrahimi nahi dor raha tha jisay Allah nay AAM INSAAN per fazeelat di hai? Kia Ali(AS) Aal-e-Ibrahim say nahi thay? U cant deny this truth.. is liyay aap khud hi Ali(AS) per b NA SAMJHTAY HUWAY BHI DROOD bhaijtay hain ..
Aur kon hain wo Aal-e-Muhammad jin per aap rozana BILA NAGA unique thread main DAROOD bhaijtay hain? Ab aap Aal-e-Muhammad aur Aal-e-Ibrahim per drood toa bhaijtay hain...zara Ali(AS) ko beech say hata ker Aal-e-Muhammad tak aap pohonch hi nahi saktay…Aal-e-Ibrahim tak kaisay pohonchaingay .Drood bhi bhaijtay hain aaplaikin un say b dosti rakhtay hain jinhon nay Aal-e-Ibrahim aur Aal-e-Muhammad say Dushmani rakhi. Aap khud hi daikh leejeyay. abudul haaris bhi akailaa naheeN aayaa thaa bohat se nafsoaN ke saath aayaa thaa.yani quran ki iss ayat se hameiN pata chaltaa hai. Hazoor Akram SAWW oar Hazrat Ali KW do alaihdaa nafs thay. ubb agar koi hadith ya rewait ye ye bhi keh day ke Huzoor Akram SAWW oar Hazrat Ali KW aik hi jaan thay toa hamaiN yaqeenun rad karnaa hogi. oar aisaa maan-ne wala sareehan Quran ke khilaaf ho ga. Thek hai. Rad ker daitay hain ;)Mein Ali RA ki azmaat ka qaail bhi hooN oar oar un ke jootoaN ke khaak apne sir par daalne ka khaahsimant bhi. (Isi liyay Dushman-e-Ali o Ahl-e-Bait ko apna AMEER samjhtay hain ) laikin meiN mohabbat meiN un ko aisaa naheeN brahaa saktaa oar na kissi muslamaan ko aisa karnaa chahiaye ke Ali KW ko Sarewar konaini SAWW ki zaat aqdas ka hissa bana day. baaqi aap khud daikh leejiaye. . meiN shukarguzaar hooN ke aap ne maire sawaaloaN ke jawabaat marhamat farma-aye. aap ne mujh se refference poochaa hai. meiN reffrence doon ga oar aik nayee baat shroo ho ja-aye.meiN ne aap se discussion shroo hone se pehle hi kahaa thaa ke meiN ziadaa se ziaada un batoaN par inehsaar karooN ga jin par ham donoaN ko aiteraaz naa ho. jo mari maalomat meiN thaa meiN ne arz kar diayaa. aap bhi aapne khayal se nawaziaye.1. Kia HasnaiN RA Hazrat Usmaan e ghani RA ki hafaazat ke leeaye gay thay? yaagar ho sake to jaise aap ne waqia mubahilaa par itnee taseeli roshni daali hai, Shahadat Usmaan RA par bhi kuch roshni daal deejiaye.oar aakhri baat, aap ne mubahila ke waqiat iss http://www.ezsoftech.com/islamic/mubahila.asp se leeaye haiN. kya meiN samajh saktaa hooN ke iss web site meiN paish kardaa tamaam ideas oar haqaiq aap ki tarjumaani karte haiN?
. Jaisay main nay last time Hazrat Ali(AS) kay moawiyah ko letters ki SUNNI website ka link aap ko dia tha ..laikin us waqt aap nay yeh baat nahi ki thi.
Main nay oper jo batein aap say ki hain..... aur meri her baat jo aap LnI main mukhtalif mokoon per mujh say suntay rahay hai..... meri yahi sari batein hi meri tarjumani kerti hain. . Abhi to main TALIB-E-ILM hoon. Main LANGUAGE TRICKS kay zariyay batoon ko uljhata nahi...seedhay asan aur aam fehem haqayiq per baat kerta hoon.
Khawar, ab hum nay buhut say logon ko is behes main involve kia hai. And I know all of them reading our discusion, ab humari discusion ka asar un per bhi hoga jinhon nay is ko attend kiya hai...aur un kay zariyay pata nahi kahan kahan tak yeah batein chali jayein. Hum sab khud ko Intellectual kehtay hain, and I believe ki jo khud ko Intellectual kehta hai us main itna SHAOOR zaroor hota hai ki SACH kay samnay aanay kay bad phir kabhi SACH ko jhoot say nahi milata.
Aakhir main ek baar phir wahi baat dohrawonga " ALI(AS) aur Ahl-e-Bait sirf wahi kaam karaingay jis ki inhoon nay tarbiat payi hai. Aur ager aap samjhtay hain ki un say GALTI ya ZIYADTI ho sakti hai to phir aap un ki PARWARISH kernay walay ki PARWARISH per yaqeen nahi rakhtay. Aur un ki parwarish us nay ki jis kay aap khud ko UMMATI kehtay hain.. aur jinhein aap Sarkar-e-do Alam kehtay hain.. Aagay aap khud samajhdar hain.

Allah hum sab ko Roshni wala rasta dikhayay.
Allah taala hamare diloaN ko such se munawwar kare,duago,Muhammad Khawar.


Sunday, December 24, 2006 11:13 AM Khawar to Mushtaq
Salam Mushtaq, Mien Ahal e bait ki mohabbat aor un ke naam par aap ki tarap ki qadar kartaa hooN. oar uss ko bohat achhi tarah samajh bhi saktaa hooN. bohat kam ilm hooN laikin phir bhi kehne ka hoslaa kar rahaa hooN ke agar Shan e Ali (KW) par kuch likhnaa paRay to sha-id aap se ziada hi likh jaa-ooN. Ali ki mohabbat meiN hi aik islaah kar leejiaye. Hazrat Ali KW ka aal e ibrahim meiN hona koi aisi bohat baRhi fazeelat naheeN. ye fazeelat oar bhi bohat se logaon ko hasil hai. Ye fazeelat tamaam bani haasham ko haasil hai. meiN zameen ko gehra-oaN ko aasmaan ki oonchaa-oaN se compare naheeN kar rahaa. balke aap ko haqeeqat bata rahaa hooN. iss darood ke do hissay haiN. Aal e Muhammad (SAWW) meiN Sarwar kaainat ki aal oar Aal e Ibrahim meiN woah naik arwaaH jo huzoor e pur noor SAWW se pehe guzreeN. Hazrat Ali KW ko doosri catagory meiN gin-naa munasib naheeN. baaqi aap ki marzi. chaliaye ubb ham apne mozoo ki taraf aate haiN. I really appreciate your understanding at these two points. 1. aap ayat par bayan ki hoee mair tarjmaani ko qabool kiya aor Hazrat Ali KW ko Sarwar e kainaat SAWW se alaihda aik hasti jaana. Iss taraH woaH haqaaiq jin par hameiN koi aitraaz naheeN ( aap toa jaane haiN ke maria maqsad hi yehi hai ;)) kuch iss tarah huway. 1. Madina meiN Muaamlaat kharaab ho gay oar giroah Hazrat usmaan Ghani RA ko qatal karnaa chahtaa thaa. 2. ye baat madina ke akkabar suahaab ke ilm meiN thi Hatta ke Hazrat Ali KW ne Hazrat Usman ki hifaazat ke leeaye Hasnain RA ko bhi maamoor kiya. 3. Hazrat Usmaan Ra ne mana farmaya ke meiN ummat muslimaa ke khilaaf talwaar uthane ki ijaazat naheeN dooN ga. 4. Haalaat abtar thay. muamlaat kharab thay laikin muslimanoaN ne aik doosre par talwaar na sonti. chanache pehaa katal huwa oar woah bhi teesre khalifaa "Hazrat usmaan RA" ka. ubb ham aage chalte haiN. 5. baagheeoN ne madina sharif par qabzaa kar leeaye. 6. mairi maloomat ke mutabiq ye bhi kaha jaataa hai ke jin bagheeoN ne Hazrat usman RA ko qatal kiya un meiN Hazrat Abou bakar siddiqui RA ke baite Hazrat Muhammad bin abou bakar RA sub se aage thay. aap iss ki bhi tasdeeq ye tardeed farmaa deejiaye. meiN aik baar phir duhraa daitaa hooN ke iss series meiN ham sirf wohi maaloomat add karaiN ge jin par hameiN ittefaq ho ga. aap agar no. 6 ki tardeed karaiN ge to mieN ye information yahaaN se nikaal dooN ga. agar aap ko iss baat ka ilm naheeN hai to meiN aap ko hsitory ka refference dooN ga. agar waoh aap ke leeaye qabil e qabool ho to ham iss baat ko add kar laiN ge. agar woah refference aap ke leeaye qabil e qabool naheeN ho ga to ham iss baat par behas karne ke baja-aye issay chhor kar aage nikaal ja-aiN ge. iss tarah agar aap ko lag rahaa ho ke tareekh ki is stage par agar meiN koi aham baat miss kar rahaa hooN to uss ki nishaandahi farma-aye oar agar meiN uss ki tasdeeq kartaa hooN toa ham iss ko add ko bhi add kar laiN gaiN. ye shart donaoN ke leeaye yaksaaN hai. aap ke jawabaat ka muntazir,
Muhammad Khawar. Note: aap ki pichli mail ke darmayan meiN kaafi saare sawaliya nishaanat daikay thaa. un sub ke jawaabat aap ko maaloom hiaN. agar aap mujh se sun-na chahte haiN toa meiN aap se iltemaas karooN ga ke aik do mukhtassar sawaalat ki jeeaye taa ke meiN un ka shaafi jawab day sakooN oar hamaraa dhayan bhi maiN discussion par rahe. oar agar ziada sawaalat karn chah rahe haiN aap maire aqaid ke mutaliq jaan-ne ke leeaye toa alaihda se mail kar leejiaye. kyooN ke iss mail meiN hamari ziada concentration muamlaat ko tareekh ke tanazur meiN daikhnaa hai oar ye silsalaa ham Shahadat e Usman RA se shroo kar chuke haiN oar meiN discussion ko bohat ziaada phailane ke haq meiN naheeN hota. meiN ne aik aor email address add kiya hai. maira bhai, dost, ya jaan kuch bhi keh leejiaye. Naam hay Asif Ali Jafri [;)]. Ahl e bait ke mohabbat meiN aik extremist [:)]. meiN ne socha ke usse bhi add kar laitaa. shaid ham aik doosre ke madad se kuch seekh sakaiN.







Replay of above by Mushtaq
Mien Ahal e bait ki mohabbat aor un ke naam par aap ki tarap ki qadar kartaa hooN. oar uss ko bohat achhi tarah samajh bhi saktaa hooN. bohat kam ilm hooN laikin phir bhi kehne ka hoslaa kar rahaa hooN ke agar Shan e Ali (KW) par kuch likhnaa paRay to sha-id aap se ziada hi likh jaa-ooN.Ali ki mohabbat meiN hi aik islaah kar leejiaye. Hazrat Ali KW ka aal e ibrahim meiN hona koi aisi bohat baRhi fazeelat naheeN. ye fazeelat oar bhi bohat se logaon ko hasil hai. Ye fazeelat tamaam bani haasham ko haasil hai. meiN zameen ko gehra-oaN ko aasmaan ki oonchaa-oaN se compare naheeN kar rahaa. balke aap ko haqeeqat bata rahaa hooN.(Aap ki is misaal say buhut dukh huwa. Q ki aap nay zameen ko gehra-oaN ko aasmaan ki oonchaa-oaN ka keh ker donon kay ek hi maqsad main tazad paida kiya. Allah Aap ko hidayat day) . iss darood ke do hissay haiN. .Aal e Muhammad (SAWW) meiN Sarwar kaainat ki aal oar Aal e Ibrahim meiN woah naik arwaaH jo huzoor e pur noor SAWW se pehe guzreeN. Hazrat Ali KW ko doosri catagory meiN gin-naa munasib naheeN. baaqi aap ki marzi. Meri Marzi kaisay ho sakti hai aisay kamoon main . Chalein aap ki baat ek bar phir maan laitay hain, Ab aap nay khud hi Ali(AS) ko pehli catagory main rakha. Ab zara DROOD per goar keejiyay, Muhammad SAWW kay sath Aal-e-Muhammad kahay bagair kia aap Drood kay aglay alfaz ada ker saktay hain?Khawar, main nay aap kay yahi teen paragraph hi parhay..aur aagay parhnay ki zaroora hi mehsoos nahi ki....... q ki humara ikhtilaf abhi tak wahein ka wahein hai. Aap nay ab tak jo cases batayay un sab say yeah sabit ho chuka hai ki HAQ ko jab koi JAHALAT ki wajah say na pehchanay to tazad aata hai. Jab tamam farek HAQ per hoon to TAZAD ki gunjayish hi nahi rehti.
Ab yahan per main aap ko wo nukta batawonga jis ki wajah say humari behes aagay nahi barh rahi. Yeah ek buhut hi SAAF aur SEEDHA sa mamla hai jahan per aap nay behes ka aghaz kia hai. Yani, "Moawiya ko Hazrat aur RA kehna chahiyay. Aur Saffen kay mamlay main Ali(AS) ko bhi aur moawiya donon ko hi HAQ per samajhna chahiyay."
Aap kay Doctors, Khontay wala aur Bhayi kay qatal walay teenooN cases main, main nay dalil say jo ki koi b bashaoor asani say samajh sakta hai, yeah sabit ker diya hai ki "do kay mabain Jhagra hota hi us waqt hai jab jab ya to donon hi GALAT hon, ya ek sahi aur ek galat ho. Jhagra us waqt ho hi nahi sakta jab donon hi SACH per ittefaq karein.aur INSAAF ko samjhein" aur GALTI insaan say us waqt hoti hai jab ILAM nahi hota. Ab aap khud hi faisla karein ki Ali(AS) aur Moawiyah main say ILM kis kay pass tha? Hazrat Muhummad kay bad pori ummat-e-muslima main ager koi SHARAYI masla kisi say hal nahi hota tha to log kis say rujoo kertay thay? Hazrat Abu-bakr, Hazrat Umer aur Hazrat Usman kay dor-e-khilafat main kitnay aisay maslay that jin ko solve kernay kay liyay waqt kay Khalifa ko bhi Ali(AS) say rujoo kerna para? aur koi aisa masla aap ko nahi milay ga jo Ali(AS) say pocha gaya ho aur usay unhoon nay solve na kiya ho.
Ab ager aap Ali(AS) aur Ahl-e-bait say MUHUBBAT rakhtay hain to, as u said;
Mien Ahal e bait ki mohabbat aor un ke naam par aap ki tarap ki qadar kartaa hooN. oar uss ko bohat achhi tarah samajh bhi saktaa hooN. bohat kam ilm hooN laikin phir bhi kehne ka hoslaa kar rahaa hooN ke agar Shan e Ali (KW) par kuch likhnaa paRay to sha-id aap se ziada hi likh jaa-ooN.
Aap kay likhnay ki salahiat say main nay kab inkar kiya hai Khawar sb . Laikin main us likhnay ki salahiat ka qayil nahi hoon jo AMAL say mutabiqat na rakhay. Shayad aap ko khud apni Muhubbat ki wo tareef yaad nahi rahi jo aap nay LnI kay "What is Love" thread main ki thein. I will quote your own WORDS here from orkut;
QUOTE:
Sub pay saaqi ki nazar ho ye zaroori hay magar,Sub pay saaqi ki nazar ho ye zaroori toa nahi .Once some one asked from Ashfaq Ahmed, who is "mehboob" jis ka shairi mein zikar hota hay. He said,"Mehboob woh hay jis ki koi ada buri na lagay, wo jafa ho ya wafa"Now if you derive the definition of Love from above definition, we can say,"Love is relation/emotion which makes us blind to see its drawbacks and one just keep himself advacing towards his/her goal(Mehoob) at any cost" As Faiz has said,Gar baazi ishaq ki baazi hay jo chaho laga do darr kaisa,Jo jeet gay to kia kehna haaray bhi to baazi maat nahi This is more easier to understand when we talk about ishaq e haqeeqi Fana fillah ke teh mein baqa ka raaz muzmir hay,Jissay marna nahi aata ussay jeena nahi aataPeak of love is Muqam e Raza A lover is supposed to love irrespective of the response of other. Balke apnay aap ko mehboob ke reham o karam par chhor diya jaata hay,Na hijar achha, na wisal achha,To jis haal mein rakhay, woh haal achhaYe uss ka muqaddar hy ke mehboob ki taraf say ussay kia atta hota hay. Koi mehboob ko bha jaata hay oar kissi ko mehboob Aazmata hay.Kissi ko toor muyassir kissi ko arsh,nazaray juda hain nazar nazar ke leeaye.But if some one has some expectations, it means the love is not at its peak.
UNQUOTE:
LINK: http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=2015154&tid=2483485124323711347&na=3&nst=11&nid=2015154-2483485124323711347-2484279800649180206
Ab aap khud hi khud say pochiyay ga ki kia aap Muhammad-o- Aal-e-Muhammad say waisi hi muhubbat kertay hain jaisi aap kehtay hain? Main aap ki un say Muhubbat per shak nahi ker raha. Main sirf yeah samjhana chah raha hoon ki jaisay aap nay kaha;
Peak of love is Muqam e Raza A lover is supposed to love irrespective of the response of other. Balke apnay aap ko mehboob ke reham o karam par chhor diya jaata hay,
Jab Ahl-e-Bait say aur Ali(AS) say muhubbat ki jayay to phir un say JANG kaisay ki ja sakti hai? Phir un per ZULAM kaisay kia ja sakta hai? Mujhey Ummed hai ki aap us MUHUBBAT ko samjhein jis ki aap nay khud tafseel say tashreh ki hai, Aap to khud ko un kay sath khara kartay hain jinhoon nay Aal-e-Muhummat say nasal dar nasal DUSHMANI rakhi, aur phir yeah bhi kehtay hain ki aap ko Aal-e-Muhummad say Muhubbat hai.
"Jo log Allah kay ahkam man-nay say inkar kertay hain, aur paighambarooN ko na haq qatal kertay hain, aur aisay logon ki jaan kay darpay ho jatay hain jo khalq-e-Khuda main say adal-o-rasti ka hukam dainay kay liyay uthein. Un ko dardnak saz ki khushkhabari suna do" (Al-Imran 21).
Allah humein un logon ki suhbat say bachayay jinhoon nay Aal-e-Muhummad kay sath zulam kiya hai. Aur humein himmat day ki hum jitna ho sakay Deem e Muhummad(SAWW) ko Aal-e-Muhummad say hi samjhein. Hum unhi per DROOD bhaijtay hain to phir hum un ki baat say hat ker kisi aur ki baat kaisay sun saktay hain?..
Ya Allah toa humein HAQ ko HAQ kehnay ki himmat day, toa hum say koi aisi harkat na kerwa jo BATIL ki taraf ragib karay. Ya Allah, hum say jahalat khatam ker, humaray ilm main izafa farma aur humein himmat day ki jahan jahan humein ilam milay usay hasil karain. Ya Allah! humaray ilm main izafa farma taki hum jahalat main kahein HAQ ko batil na kahein. Ya Allah! humaray dillon main Muhummad o Aal-e-Muhummad kay liyay wahi muhubbat dal jis ki tareef khawar nay in tarah ki ki khud ko mehboob kay hawalay karein. Aisi muhubbat jis main her jagah humein mehboob hi nazar aayay. Ya Allah! humaray diloon main un kay liyay haqeeqi muhubbat paida ker jo teray aashiq hain. Jinhoon nay terey Deen kay liyay 6 mah kay bachay say layker 70 saal kay buzrug tak qurban kia. Ya Allah! humein un kay shar say mehfooz rakh jinhoon nay teray Ashiqaan kay sath anad rakha.un per zulam kia aur unhein qatal kia Bay shak to Toa her cheez per qudrat rakhta hai.




January 14, 2007. Mushtaq to khawar.
Salam Khawar,
10 din aur guzar gayay aap ke reminder per following acknowledgement kay. I dont think its a very hard to deside ki aap ko Ahl-e-Bait say wahi Muhubbat hai jis ki aap tareef kertay hain ya un kay sath waisi muhubbat aap rakhtay hain jinhoon nay Ahl-e-Bait say dushmani rakhi. Q ki aap ko Dushmanan-e-Ahl-e-bait ki Ahl-e-bait say dushmani nazar nahi aati.. unhoon nay Ahl-e-bait per jis kisam ka zulam kia wo zulam aap ko nazar nahi aata... jis say yahi mehsoos hota hai ki aap ko apnay mehboob ki jafa nazar nahi aati.... halanki unhoon nay JAFA un kay sath ki jin per hum aur aap her waqt drood bhaijtay hain..jinhein hum Ahl-e-Bait e Muhummad Mustafa (SAWW) kehtay hain.
Main LnI main apnay shurooh kiyay gayay thread DEEN main QURAN kay baad SUNNAT ki ahmiat per bhi thori buhut, apnay ilam kay hisab say roshni dalna chahonga.. laikin us say pehlay main chahonga ki aap zara apni MUHUBBAT ko clear karein.. q ki SUNNAT sirf aur sirf MUHUBBAT -E - MUHUAMMAD(SAWW) ki sorat main hi sahi ho sakti hai.. jab tak Muhummad(SAWW) say Muhubbat na ho us waqt tak SUNNAT ki pairwi nahi ho sakti.
Hope to hear from you soon.



Salam Mustaq,

Leejiaye mieN phir haazir ho gia.

Maire replies green color meiN hain.


Mien Ahal e bait ki mohabbat aor un ke naam par aap ki tarap ki qadar kartaa hooN. oar uss ko bohat achhi tarah samajh bhi saktaa hooN. bohat kam ilm hooN laikin phir bhi kehne ka hoslaa kar rahaa hooN ke agar Shan e Ali (KW) par kuch likhnaa paRay to sha-id aap se ziada hi likh jaa-ooN. Ali ki mohabbat meiN hi aik islaah kar leejiaye. Hazrat Ali KW ka aal e ibrahim meiN hona koi aisi bohat baRhi fazeelat naheeN. ye fazeelat oar bhi bohat se logaon ko hasil hai. Ye fazeelat tamaam bani haasham ko haasil hai. meiN zameen ko gehra-oaN ko aasmaan ki oonchaa-oaN se compare naheeN kar rahaa. balke aap ko haqeeqat bata rahaa hooN.(Aap ki is misaal say buhut dukh huwa. Q ki aap nay zameen ko gehra-oaN ko aasmaan ki oonchaa-oaN ka keh ker donon kay ek hi maqsad main tazad paida kiya. Allah Aap ko hidayat day) . iss darood ke do hissay haiN. .
Mein ye samajhne se qaasir hooN ke aap kiss baat kaa dukh huwaa hai. meiN ne kissi do shakhsiat ke aik hi maqsad ko alaihda alaihda naheeN kiayaa. Aap ko yaqeenun koi ghalat fehmi hoee hai.
Ab aap itnay bhi masoom nahi ;).Aal e Muhammad (SAWW) meiN Sarwar kaainat ki aal oar Aal e Ibrahim meiN woah naik arwaaH jo huzoor e pur noor SAWW se pehe guzreeN. Hazrat Ali KW ko doosri catagory meiN gin-naa munasib naheeN. baaqi aap ki marzi. Meri Marzi kaisay ho sakti hai aisay kamoon main . Chalein aap ki baat ek bar phir maan laitay hain, Ab aap nay khud hi Ali(AS) ko pehli catagory main rakha. Ab zara DROOD per goar keejiyay, Muhammad SAWW kay sath Aal-e-Muhammad kahay bagair kia aap Drood kay aglay alfaz ada ker saktay hain?
Mein aik baar phir aap ki logic samajhne se qaSir hooN. Bhalaa iss se kon inkaari hai kea aaal ka zikr keeaye Khawar, main nay aap kay yahi teen paragraph hi parhay..aur aagay parhnay ki zaroora hi
Mein bhala iss bare meiN kia keh saktaa hooN.
....... q ki humara ikhtilaf abhi tak wahein ka wahein hai. Aap nay ab tak jo cases batayay un sab say yeah sabit ho chuka hai ki HAQ ko jab koi JAHALAT ki wajah say na pehchanay to tazad aata hai. Jab tamam farek HAQ per hoon to TAZAD ki gunjayish hi nahi rehti.
- yehi to hamaraa ikhtilaaf hai.
- Aaj Inshallah HAQ samnay aa jayay ga. J

Ab yahan per main aap ko wo nukta batawonga jis ki wajah say humari behes aagay nahi barh rahi. Yeah ek buhut hi SAAF aur SEEDHA sa mamla hai jahan per aap nay behes ka aghaz kia hai. Yani, "Moawiya ko Hazrat aur RA kehna chahiyay. Aur Saffen kay mamlay main Ali(AS) ko bhi aur moawiya donon ko hi HAQ per samajhna chahiyay."
- agar ye itnaa hi aasaan hotaa to bat age hi kyooN baRhti Sir J
J
Aap kay Doctors, Khontay wala aur Bhayi kay qatal walay teenooN cases main, main nay dalil say jo ki koi b bashaoor asani say samajh sakta hai, yeah sabit ker diya hai ki "do kay mabain Jhagra hota hi us waqt hai jab jab ya to donon hi GALAT hon, ya ek sahi aur ek galat ho. Jhagra us waqt ho hi nahi sakta jab donon hi SACH per ittefaq karein.aur INSAAF ko samjhein" aur GALTI insaan say us waqt hoti hai jab ILAM nahi hota. Ab aap khud hi faisla karein ki Ali(AS) aur Moawiyah main say ILM kis kay pass tha? Hazrat Muhummad kay bad pori ummat-e-muslima main ager koi SHARAYI masla kisi say hal nahi hota tha to log kis say rujoo kertay thay? Hazrat Abu-bakr, Hazrat Umer aur Hazrat Usman kay dor-e-khilafat main kitnay aisay maslay that jin ko solve kernay kay liyay waqt kay Khalifa ko bhi Ali(AS) say rujoo kerna para? aur koi aisa masla aap ko nahi milay ga jo Ali(AS) say pocha gaya ho aur usay unhoon nay solve na kiya ho. Shehr-e-Ilam kay BAB-e-Ilam ka jab aap us shakhs say moazna karaingay jis kay ILAM aur EMAN ki tarbiat nay tareekh main YAZEED banaya.
Ji meiN pehle hi keh chukka hooN ke ham iss par behas karne ja rahaiN haiN.
Kamal hai….. Aap ki nazar aur khayal main hum ab tak kia kertay rahay hain jo hum is per behes kernay ABHI BHI JARAHAY HAIN?

Ab ager aap Ali(AS) aur Ahl-e-bait say MUHUBBAT rakhtay hain to, as u said;
Mien Ahal e bait ki mohabbat aor un ke naam par aap ki tarap ki qadar kartaa hooN. oar uss ko bohat achhi tarah samajh bhi saktaa hooN. bohat kam ilm hooN laikin phir bhi kehne ka hoslaa kar rahaa hooN ke agar Shan e Ali (KW) par kuch likhnaa paRay to sha-id aap se ziada hi likh jaa-ooN.
Aap kay likhnay ki salahiat say main nay kab inkar kiya hai Khawar sb . Laikin main us likhnay ki salahiat ka qayil nahi hoon jo AMAL say mutabiqat na rakhay. Shayad aap ko khud apni Muhubbat ki wo tareef yaad nahi rahi jo aap nay LnI kay "What is Love" thread main ki thein. I will quote your own WORDS here from orkut;
QUOTE:
Sub pay saaqi ki nazar ho ye zaroori hay magar,Sub pay saaqi ki nazar ho ye zaroori toa nahi .Once some one asked from Ashfaq Ahmed, who is "mehboob" jis ka shairi mein zikar hota hay. He said,"Mehboob woh hay jis ki koi ada buri na lagay, wo jafa ho ya wafa"Now if you derive the definition of Love from above definition, we can say,"Love is relation/emotion which makes us blind to see its drawbacks and one just keep himself advacing towards his/her goal(Mehoob) at any cost" As Faiz has said,Gar baazi ishaq ki baazi hay jo chaho laga do darr kaisa,Jo jeet gay to kia kehna haaray bhi to baazi maat nahi This is more easier to understand when we talk about ishaq e haqeeqi Fana fillah ke teh mein baqa ka raaz muzmir hay,Jissay marna nahi aata ussay jeena nahi aataPeak of love is Muqam e Raza A lover is supposed to love irrespective of the response of other. Balke apnay aap ko mehboob ke reham o karam par chhor diya jaata hay,Na hijar achha, na wisal achha,To jis haal mein rakhay, woh haal achhaYe uss ka muqaddar hy ke mehboob ki taraf say ussay kia atta hota hay. Koi mehboob ko bha jaata hay oar kissi ko mehboob Aazmata hay.Kissi ko toor muyassir kissi ko arsh,nazaray juda hain nazar nazar ke leeaye.But if some one has some expectations, it means the love is not at its peak.
UNQUOTE:
LINK: http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=2015154&tid=2483485124323711347&na=3&nst=11&nid=2015154-2483485124323711347-2484279800649180206
Ab aap khud hi khud say pochiyay ga ki kia aap Muhammad-o- Aal-e-Muhammad say waisi hi muhubbat kertay hain jaisi aap kehtay hain?
- Sir mair mohabbat ka andaaz facts aor iss discussion par koi faraq naheeN daaltaa. Ham iss hissay ko ba asaani skip kar sakte haiN. Mukhatisirun arz kartaa chalooN ke meiN jaisi mohabbat kehtaa hooN waisii hi kartaa hooN. Ye daikhiaye,
- J Aaj pata lag jata hai.;)
"Mehboob woh hay jis ki koi ada buri na lagay, wo jafa ho ya wafa"
meiN ahl e bait se Allah aor us ke rasool ke leeaye mohabbat kartaa hooN oar un ki kissi bhi khaami se mujhe koi faraq naheeN paRhtaa.
Khawar sab, yeah aap hain jinhein Allah aur Rasool (SAWW) main koi khami nazar aajati hogi. Hum to Us Allah aur Us Rasool aur Imam ko mantay hain jin main koi KHAMI nahi ho sakti. Q ki wo duniya ki REHNUMAYI kay liyay namzad hotay hai Rab ki taraf say. Jab EMAN ki baat aati hai to KHAMI say EMAN ki KAMZORI sabit hoti hai. Hum Muhuammad-o-Aal-e-Muhuammad(SAWW) ko her kisam ki khami say door, Masoom samajhtay hain. Q ki un ki TAT-HEER ki guarantee Quran daita hai. Humein to Muhammad o Aal-e-Muhammad (SAWW) main her zawiyay say perfection nazar aati hai. Yeah aap hain jo apnay rasool ko UMMI kehtay hain aur khud ko EDUCATED INTELLECTUAL J .
Iss tarah Suhbah se Allah oar us ke Rasool SAWW ke leeaye mohabbat kartaa hooN oar mujhe un ki insaani lagzishaiN un se mohabbat karne se naheen rokti.
Q ki aap andhey hain, behray hain gongay hain. Is liyay aap un say Muhubbat kertay hain jinhoon nay Muhummad-o-aal-e-muhummad(SAWW) say dushmani aur nafrat ki aur yeah bhi samajhtay ho ki aap ko Muhummad o Aal-e-Muhummad say bhi Muhubbat hai. Yahi aap ki KEHNAY aur KERNAY wali muhubbat ka farak hai. Jisay Qoal-o-Fail ka tazad kaha jata hai.
Issi leeaye jub Hazrat Ali (KW) aor Hazrat Ameer Muawia (RA) ko aamne saamne daikhne ke bawajood bhi donaoN ka ehteraam kartaa hooN. Mujhe Ali KW ki mohabbat Muwia RA se nafrat naheeN sikhaati.
Ek waqt main ek hi AMEER ho sakta hai Khawar saaaaaaab. Yahan main aap say ek halka sa sawal karonga jo mera PEHLA DIRECT sawal hoga aap say aur jo humari behes ko hi anjaam tak pohonchayay gaJ
Aap mujhey batayein, suppose v r at the time of saffin. Hazrat Ali (AH) aur aap kay ameer moawiyah ki fojein aamnay samnay hain. Hum per JAHAD wajib hai. Aap kis ki taraf say jang laraingay?...... Aap nay kisi ek kashti main hi sawar hona hai, it's a very simple question and will declare ur reality of Muhubbat.:)..daikhein JAHAD wajib hai, aap nay kisi kay khilaf to talwar uthani hai warna aap ISLAM say kharij hain…..and don't try to skip this question as u usualy do :P
Aur yahi sawal mera un sab say bhi hai jo humari discusion attend ker rahay hain. I hope to hear from all of you Amir, Salman, Sumaira, Humaira and all others.

Khawar, I am not going to SKIP the matter of saffin and go to Qatal-e-Uthman(RA), ager aap ko itna hi shouk hai to then why we don't start from MORE CLEAR, and ATHENTIC history and CLOSER time to us like Karbala? Q ki aap sari zindagi koshish ker kay bhi Qatal-e-Uthman main Ali(AS) ko guilty sabit nahi ker saktay, aur jab Ali(AS) ka Qatal-e-Usman main koi hath hi nahi hai Qatal-e-Usman ki kahani hi hum q shurooh karein?..and then why we waste our time on that? Ager aap kehtay hain ki hazrat Usman(RA) ka Qatal Ali(AS) nay kiya hai to waisey kahein ;)
Today I am going to quote some traditions/ahadith from Sunni books at the bottom of this letter. I would like you to read the all and then chose your AMEER. Aap kay liyay ek aur koshish kerta hoon. Shayad Allah aap ko hidayat karay ki aap nay kis ko apna AMEER banaya hai.
Aik shaksh do logaoN se mohahabbat ya adab kartaa hoa aor waoh aapis mien lar paraiN to iss key a matlab naheen ke woah uss buzarg hasti ka adab karnaa chhor day jiss ki ghalati hoa. Agar Islam ye sikhaataa hai to phir bohat se baitaon ko har roz apne baap se larna pare gaa jo un ki maaN ke saath koi zaidti kartaa hai.

Kia aap samajhte haiN ke agar baap maaN se zaidti kare to hameiN baap se larna chahiaye ya agar maaN baap se koi badtameezi kare to hameiN maaN ki class laini chahiaye?
GHER aur DEEN kay mamlaat mukhtalif hotay hain khawar sab. Waisey shayad aap is had tak to jantay hongay ki ZALIM ka sath daina ya ZALIM kay zulam per khamosh rehna bhi bazat-e-khud ek Zulam kerna hai.
“

Main aap ki un say Muhubbat per shak nahi ker raha. Main sirf yeah samjhana chah raha hoon ki jaisay aap nay kaha;
Peak of love is Muqam e Raza A lover is supposed to love irrespective of the response of other. Balke apnay aap ko mehboob ke reham o karam par chhor diya jaata hay,
Jab Ahl-e-Bait say aur Ali(AS) say muhubbat ki jayay to phir un say JANG kaisay ki ja sakti hai?
- jaise aik bhai aik bhai se laRtaa hai. Jaise aik maaN apne baite ko mohabbat ko bawajood daant-ti hai. Jaise do dost kissi ikhtelaaf par larte haiN. Aor jaise,
- J J J
Ahl e bait , ahl e bait se larte haiN ( Hazrat Aysha RA oar Hazrat Ali KW)


Phir un per ZULAM kaisay kia ja sakta hai?
Islam baap ka jurm baitay ke sir oar baitay ka jurm baap ke sir daalne se manaa kartaa hai. Har shakhs sirf apne aamaal ka jawab de hai.

Mujhey Ummed hai ki aap us MUHUBBAT ko samjhein jis ki aap nay khud tafseel say tashreh ki hai, Aap to khud ko un kay sath khara kartay hain jinhoon nay Aal-e-Muhummat say nasal dar nasal DUSHMANI rakhi,
J . just a smile.

aur phir yeah bhi kehtay hain ki aap ko Aal-e-Muhummad say Muhubbat hai.
"Jo log Allah kay ahkam man-nay say inkar kertay hain, aur paighambarooN ko na haq qatal kertay hain, aur aisay logon ki jaan kay darpay ho jatay hain jo khalq-e-Khuda main say adal-o-rasti ka hukam dainay kay liyay uthein. Un ko dardnak saz ki khushkhabari suna do" (Al-Imran 21).
Allah humein un logon ki suhbat say bachayay jinhoon nay Aal-e-Muhummad kay sath zulam kiya hai.
Un logaoN par khuda ki laanat jinhoaN ne kiss kism ke bad neeyati ki waja se abou baker, umar usman, ali ya Muawiayaa se dushmani ki.
Un logon per Khuda ki lanat jinhoon nay Muhummad-o-Aal-e-Muhammad kay sath zulam kia, unhein qatal kia aur aziyatein dein. Aur un logon per bhi lanat jinhon nay un zalimon say muhubbat rakhi jinhoon nay Rasool-e-Khuda(SAWW) kay chahetoon ko sataya.
Aur humein himmat day ki hum jitna ho sakay Deem e Muhummad(SAWW) ko Aal-e-Muhummad say hi samjhein. Hum unhi per DROOD bhaijtay hain to phir hum un ki baat say hat ker kisi aur ki baat kaisay sun saktay hain?.. jab hum unhi per Drood bhaijtay hain to koi aisi baat jo un kay khilaf jayay hum kaisey sun saktay hain?
. Ameen. Aor un logoaN par khudaa ki laanat jinhoaN ne khail tamashe ke leeaye aor apne mufaadat ke leeaye aal e Muhammad ke farmanoaN oar tareeqoaN ko badlaa
Ameen summa ameen.
Ya Allah toa humein HAQ ko HAQ kehnay ki himmat day, toa hum say koi aisi harkat na kerwa jo BATIL ki taraf ragib karay. Ya Allah, hum say jahalat khatam ker, humaray ilm main izafa farma aur humein himmat day ki jahan jahan humein ilam milay usay hasil karain. Ya Allah! humaray ilm main izafa farma taki hum jahalat main kahein HAQ ko batil na kahein. Ya Allah! humaray dillon main Muhummad o Aal-e-Muhummad kay liyay wahi muhubbat dal jis ki tareef khawar nay in tarah ki ki khud ko mehboob kay hawalay karein. Aisi muhubbat jis main her jagah humein mehboob hi nazar aayay. Ya Allah! humaray diloon main un kay liyay haqeeqi muhubbat paida ker jo teray aashiq hain. Jinhoon nay terey Deen kay liyay 6 mah kay bachay say layker 70 saal kay buzrug tak qurban kia. Ya Allah! humein un kay shar say mehfooz rakh jinhoon nay teray Ashiqaan kay sath anad rakha.un per zulam kia aur unhein qatal kia Bay shak Toa her cheez per qudrat rakhta hai.

. Ameen.

Leejiaye janab ye to thay aap ki mail par comments ub hasbe mamooml aap se kuch bataiN.
Meri mail ka hameshe darj zail hissay hotaiN haiN.
1. aap ki mail par comments.
2. aap ke sawaloaN ke jawab. ( jo important sawal jo aap mail ke aakhir meiN likhaa karaiN ge.)
3. aor aakhir meiN tarkeekh ke un haqaa-que ko ikhathaa karne ki koshi jis par ham donoaN ko koi aitraaz na ho taa ke uss ke roshni meiN daikhaa ja sake ke kia huwaa oar kyooN huwa.
4. aor aakhir hisse meiN aap se kuch sawaalat.
aap shayed jazbaat meiN itnaa beh gay ke mairi pichli mail ke aakhiri hissay par tawajja hi na day pa-aye haalaaN ke aakhir hissa hi darasal hamaray in arguments ko systematically aage lay kar chale ga. Umeed kartaa hooN ke iss baar aap naheen bhoolaiN gay.
Is ki nobat nahi aayay gi. Aap aur meri behes ka mozoo Hazrat Ali(AS) ka wo qoal hai jo main nay quote kiya tha Saffen ki jang per aap say behes kay doran“Ek hi jang main donon farik haq per nahi ho saktay”..u opposed me and said “Ek jang main donon fareek haq per ho saktay hain” . Main nay kisi dosri tesri jang ki baat hi nahi ki aur na hi karonga, main aaj usi jang ki baat karonga jis ki behes kay doran aap nay yeah point uthaya tha. Aaj hum nay bhi jang-e-saffen main shirkat kerni hai, aaj hum sab nay jis jis nay is behes main hissa liya apna apna ameer chun-na hai. So, I am not going to read what u wrote below….. Just read the traditions/Ahadeeth from different Sunni athentic books about Hazrat Ali(AS) and moawiya and chose your path and Ameer u can verify all tradition for the refrenced books.. Aaj hum nay apna apna Ameer chun-na hai. Mujhey to wahan wahan HAQ milta hai jahan jahan Muhammad-o-Aal-e-muhammad(SAWW) miltay hain.. . Pata nahi aap logon ko HAQ kahan milta hai?




ALI (AH) in Hadith (Sunni books)
Hazrat Muhammad (SAWW) said “I am like sun and Ali is like moon”.
. Ali ki roshni toa is jahan tak hi nahi , Humaray wehem humaray guman tak hi nahi ,
Likha hai chand main daikho wo goar say kia hai , Zameen tak hi nahi Asmaan tak hi nahi (Link: http://www.al-imam.net/miraclesali.htm )

Rasulullah (s) said, "Love of 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain is a sign of one being legitimate, hatred of them is the sign of one being illegitimate".

Mohibuddeen al Tabari in Riyad ul Nadira Volume 3 page 117 Chapter 116 narrates this tradition from 'Abu Bakr:



"Ali is with the truth and the truth is with 'Ali" - Ref. from the Books of Ahl'ul Sunnah:1-Nuzul ul Abrar page 242-Kanz al-`ummal Volume 6 page 157 Chapter "Fadail 'Ali"3-Tuhfa Ithna Ashariyyah page 2164-Tafsir Kabir Volume 1 page 1055-Jama Tirmidhi, Volume 2 page 573Chapter "Manaqib 'Ali ibne 'Abi Talib"6-Fara'id us Simtayn page 174 Chapter 367-Manaqib, by Khawarzmi Chapter 8 page 568-Kunuz al Haqaiq page 1609-Seerath Halbeeya Volume 3 page 23610-Manaqib by Ibne Maghazli page 144


Hadith Al-TashbihThe Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said: "Whoever wishes to see Adam in his knowledge, Noah in his piety, Abraham in his forbearance, Moses in his strength, and Jesus in his worship and devotion should look at Ali ibn Abi TalibSunni Refernces:al Muhibb al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 218, 208; al Muttaqi in Kanz alummal, i, 226; Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh Nahj al Balaghah (Egypt, ed. Muhammad Abu al?Fadl), ix, 168; al Qunduzi, Yanabi al Mawaddah (Istanbul), p. 214, 312; Ibn Asakir, Tarikh Dimashq, "Tarjumat al-Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib," ii, 280; Fakhr al Razi, Tafsir, ii, 700; Ibn al Maghazili, Manaqib, 212; Ibn al Sabbagh al Maliki, al Fusul al Muhimmah, 107. Hadith Al-NoorThe Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:"Fourteen thousand years before Adam, upon whom be peace, was created, I and Ali were a light in the presence of God. When God created Adam, upon whom be peace, He divided it into two parts. I am one of the parts and Ali is the other part."Sunni Refernces:Al Muhibb al Tabari narrates this tradition on the authority of Salman from the Prophet (pbuh&hp) in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 163:Ahmad ibn Hanbal in al Fada'il; Sibt ibn al Jawzi in Tadhkirat Alآ­khawass, 46; Abu Hatim Muhammad ibn Idris al Razi in Zayn al Fata fi tafsir Surat Hal ata, MS.; Abd Allah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Zawaid manaqib Amir al Muminin, MS., This tradition has also been narrated by also Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn Abd al Barr, al Khatib al Baghdadi, Ibn al Maghazili, al-Asimi, Shiruyah al Daylami and others from Imam Ali , Salman , Abu Dharr , Anas ibn Malik , Jabir ibn Abd Allah and other Companions.Hadith Al-Rayah(Alam)Al Bukhari mentions this tradition in his Sahih, "Kitab al Jihad wa al Siyar": Sahl ibn Sad said: "The Prophet (pbuh&hp) said on the day of (the victory of) Khaybar: "Tomorrow I will give the standard to a man, by whose hand God shall conquer (Khaybar). He loves God and His Messenger, and God and His Messenger love him."The people passed the night wondering as to who will receive it and everyone was hopeful of getting it. (The next day) the Prophet (pbuh&hp) declared: "Where is Ali?" He was told: 'He is suffering with an eye pain.' (When Ali came) the Prophet applied his saliva to his eyes and prayed for him. Ali recovered as if he had no pain before. Then the Prophet (pbuh&hp) gave it (the standard) to him... Other Sunni Refernces:Muslim in his Sahih, "Kitab al-jihad wa al Siyar" and "Kitab fada'il al Sahabah"; al Tirmidhi in his Sahih, i, 218; Ibn Majah in Sunan (Matba`at al Faruqi, Delhi) "bab fada'il ashab Rasul Allah (S)"; al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 38, 437; Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Musnad, i, 99, 133, 185, 320, iv, 51, v, 353; Abu Nu`aym in Hilyat al 'awliya', i, 26, 62; al Nasa'i in Khasa'is, 4, 5, 7, 8, 32; al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, v, 283, 285, vi, 394, 395, 405; al Haythami in Majma al Zawa'id, vi, 150, 151, ix, 119, 123, 124; Ibn Hajar, Tahdhib al Tahdhib, vii, 337, 339; al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 185, 187, 203; al Tabari, Tarikh, ii, 300; Ibn Sa`d, al Tabaqat, ii, part one, 80; Ibn Abd al Barr, al Istiab (Hyderabad, 1336), ii, 450; al Bayhaqi in Sunan, vi, 362. Hadith Madinat al-IlmThe Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:"I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate; whoever intends to enter the city should come to its gate." Sunni Refernces:Al Hakim in his Mustadrak, iii, 126, 127:al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, ii, 348, 377; vii, 172; xi, 48, 49; al Muhibb al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 193; al Muttaqi in Kanz al ummal, vi, 152, 156, 401; Ibn Hajar in al Sawa'iq al Muhriqah, 73; al Manawi in Kunuz al Haqaiq, 43 and Fayd al Qadir, iii, 46; al Haythami, Majma al Zawa'id, ix, 114; Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iv, 22 and Tahdhib al Tahdhib (Hyderabad, 1325), vi, 152; as well as al Uqayli, Ibn Adi and al Tabarani. Hadith Al-TayrAl Tirmidhi in his Sahih reports that once when the Prophet (S) sat down to eat a fowl that had been prepared for his dinner, he prayed to God: "My God, bring the most beloved of Your creatures, that he may eat this fowl with me." Then Ali came and the Prophet ate with him.Other Sunni Refernces:al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 130, 131; Abu Nuaym in Hilyah, vi, 339; al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, ii, 171; al Muhibb al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 160, 161, and Dhakha'ir al?-uqba, 61; al Haythami in Majma al Zawa'id, ix, 125, 126; al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, iv, 406; Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iv, 30. Hadith Al-WilayahThe Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:"Verily, Ali and I are inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every believer after me."Sunni Refernces:Al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 297, Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iv, 437, v, 356; Abu Dawud al Tayalisi in his Musnad, iii, 111, xi, 360; al Haythami, Majma al Zawaid, ix, 109, 127, 128, 199; al Khatib al Baghdadi, Tarikh Baghdad, iv, 339; al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 203, 171; al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 154, 155, 396, 401; Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, v, 94; Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya, vi, 294; al Nasa'i, Khasais, 19, 23; as well as Ibn Abi Shaybah, al Tabari, al Tabarani, al ?Daylami, Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn al Jawzi, al Rafii, and Ibn Hajar. Hadith Al-ManzilahThe Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) is reported to have said to Imam Ali :"Are you not pleased to have the position (manzilah) in relation to me as that Aaron had in relation to Moses?" Sunni Refernces:Al Bukhari in his Sahih (al Matba'at al Khayriyyah, Egypt, 1320) in "Kitab bad' al Khalq", "Bab manaqib `Ali ibn Abi Talib" and "Bab ghazwat Tabuk," in two places, records this tradition Muslim in his Sahih (Matba`at Bulaq, 1290), "Kitab fada'il al Sahabah," through three chains; al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 301; Ibn Majah in his Sunan, p. 12; al Hakim in Mustadrak, ii, 337; Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Musnad, i, 29, 170, 173, 174, 175, 177, 179, 182, 184, 185; 230, iii, 338, vi, 369; al Nasa'i in Khasa'is, 4, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 32; Ibn Sad in al Tabaqat (Leiden 1322) iii, part one, 14, 15; Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya', vi, 345, vii, 194, 195, 196, viii, 307; al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, i, 324, iii, 288, iv, 71, 204, 382, vii, 452, viii, 52, ix, 394, x, 43, xi, 432, xii, 323; al Tabari in his Tarikh al Umam wa al Muluk (Matbaat al Istiqamah, Cairo, 1357), ii, 368; Ibn al Athir, Usd alآ­ghabah, v, 8; al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, iii, 154, v, 40, vi, 154, 188, 395, 402, 404, 405, viii, 215; al Haythami, Majma al Zawa'id, ix, 109, 110, 111, 119; alMuhibb al Tabari, in al Riyad al Nadirah, i, 13, ii, 162, 163, 164, 175, 195, 203 and Dhakha'ir al Uqba, 120. Hadith Al-GhadeerThe Prophet (pbuh&hp) while returning from his last pilgrimage stopped the entire caravan at Ghadeer Khumm and made the announcement: "Of whomever I am his master (mawla), Ali also is his master (mawla)."Sunni References:al Hakim in Mustadrak ala al Sahihayn vol. iii, pp. 109110; Al Tirmidhi in his Sahih (Bulaq, 1292), ii, 298; Sunan Ibn Majah (Matba`at al Faruqi, Delhi), in "bab Fada'il ashab Rasul Allah (S)" from al Bara' ibn `Azib and Sa`d ibn Abi Waqqas; Al Hakim in Mustadrak (Hyderabad, 1313) from Zayd ibn Arqam (iii, 109, 533), Sa`d ibn Malik (iii, 116), from Rifa`ah ibn Ayas al Dabbi from his father from his grandfather (iii, 371), and from Buraydah al Aslami; (iii, 110; ii, 129); Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, al Matbaat al Maymaniyyah, Egypt, 1313, from al Bara' ibn Azib (iv, 281), Buraydah al Aslami (v, 347, 350, 358), Zayd ibn Arqam (iv, 372, iv, 368, v, 307), Ibn Abbas (i, 330), Abu al Tufayl (iv, 270) and Ali ibn Abi Talib (A) (i, 84, 88, 118, 139, 152, v, 307, 366, 419); Abu Nuaym al Isfahani; in Hilyat al Awliya (Egypt: Matbaat alآ­ Saadah, 1351) iv, 23, v, 26; Fakhr al Din al Razi; in al Tafsir al Kabir (Dar Tibaat al Amirah) under the verse 5:67; Al Khatib al Baghdadi, in Ta'rikh Baghdad (Matbaat al Saadah, 1360), vii, 377, viii, 290, xii, 343, xiv, 236; Al Nasai in Khasa'is (Matbaat al Taqaddum al Ilmiyyah, Egypt, 1348), pp.4, 21, 22, 23, 25, 26, 40; Al Muhibb al Tabari, in al Riyad al Nadirah (Matbaat al Ittihad, Egypt, 1st ed.), ii, 169, 170, 172, 203 and Dhakhair al Uqba (Egypt 1356), 86; Ibn Hajar al Asqalani in al Sawaiq al Muhriqah (al Matba`at al?Maymaniyyah, Egypt; 1312), pp. 25, 26; `Ali al Muttaqi al Hindi in Kanz al Ummal (Hyderabad, 1312), i, 48, vi, 83, 153, 154, 390, 397, 398, 399, 403,405, 406, 407; Ibn Hajar al Asqalani in al Isabah (Calcutta, 1853 A.D.), i, part one, 57, 319; iii, part one, 29; iv, part one, 14, 16, 61, 143, 169, 182; vi, 223, vii, part one, 78, 156; Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah (al Matba`at al Wahbiyyah, Egypt, 1285), i, 308, 367, 368, ii, 307, 233, iii, 92, 93, 321, 374, iv, 28, v, 205, 276, 383; Ibn Qutaybah in al Imamah wa al Siyasah (Matba`at al Futuh al-Adabiyyah, 1331), 93; Al Tahawi in Mushkil al Aathar (Hyderabad, 1333), ii, 307; Al Manawi in Fayd al Qadir (Egypt, 1356), vi, 218, 358 and Kunuz al?Haqa'iq (Istanbul, 1285), 92; Al Haythami Majma al Zawa'id (Egypt, 1352), vii, 17, ix 103, 104, 105, 106,107, 108, 119, 163, 164; `Ali ibn Sultan Muhammad al Qari in Mirqat al Mafatih (al Matba`at al?Maymaniyyah, Egypt, 1309), v, 568. Hadith Al-MunasabahThe Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:Whoever contests Ali in regard to the khilafah is an unbeliever.""Sunni Refernces:Ibn al Maghazili in his Manaqib (Tehran), p.45, from Abu Dharr al Ghifari,Allamah Ayni Hyderabadi in Manaqib Sayyidina Ali (Alam Press, Charminar), p.52, from al Khatib al Khwarazmi and Ibn al Maghazili. Hadith Al-SafinahThe Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:Muhammad-Ali-Fatima-Hasan-Hussain (peace be upon them all) "The parable of my Ahl Al?bayt is that of the boat of Noah, whoever gets aboard it is saved and whoever stays away from it is drowned."Sunni References:Al Hakim in his Mustadrak, ii, 343, iii, 150:Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya', iv, 306; al Khatib in Ta'rikh Baghdad, xii, 19; al Suyuti in al Durr al Manthur (al-Matba`at al Maymaniyyah, Egypt, 1314), under verse 2:58; al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, i, 250, vi, 216; al Haythami in Majma` al Zawa'id, ix, 167, 168; al Muhibb al Tabari in Dhakha'ir al Uqba, 20; al Manawi in Kunuz al?Haqa'iq, 132.

"Whoever obeys 'Ali, obeys me, whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, whoever disobeys 'Ali disobeys me, whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah"

Kanz ul Ummal, hadith numbers 32973










Muawiya (LA)
Ibn Abbas reported: I was playing with children that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) happened to pass by (us). I hid myself behind the door. He (the Holy Prophet) came and he patted upon my shoulders and said: Go and call Mu'awiya. I returned and said: He is busy in taking food. He again asked me to go and call Mu'swiya to him. I went (and came back) and said that he was busy in taking food, whereupon he said: May Allah not fill his belly! Ibn Muthanna, said: I asked Umm Umayya what he meant by the word Hatani. He said: It means" he patted my shoulders".
Book 032, Number 6298: Sahi Muslim
Rasulullah (s) said, "Love of 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain is a sign of one being legitimate, hatred of them is the sign of one being illegitimate".

Mohibuddeen al Tabari in Riyad ul Nadira Volume 3 page 117 Chapter 116 narrates this tradition from 'Abu Bakr:


"Following the deaths of 'Ali and Hasan, Mu'awiya issued an order to all Mosques including Masjidun Nabi that the people curse 'Ali".

Iqd al Fareed Volume 1 page 246


"O Ali! Soon a rebellious group will fight against you, you will be on the truth. Whoever does not support you on that day will not be from us"

Kanz al Ummal, by Ali Muttaqi al Hind quoting Ibn Asakir, hadith number 32970

Hadhrath Ayesha's testimony about methods of Nikah during the time of Jahiliyya
We read in Sahih al Bukhari "Book of Nikah" - Chapter "Whoever said, a marriage is not valid except with the woman's relatives" - Hadhrath Ayesha narrates:"?there were four types of marriage during the Pre-Islamic period of ignorance. One type was similar to that of the present day, i.e. a man used to ask somebody else for the hand of a girl under his guardianship or for his daughter's hand?. another type of marriage was that a group of less than ten men would assemble and enter upon a women, and all of them would have sexual relations with her. If she became pregnant and delivered a child and some days had passed after her delivery, she would send for all of them and none of them could refuse to come, and when they all gathered before her she would say to them "You (all) know what you have done and now I have given birth to a child. So it is your child O so and so! Naming whoever she liked and her child would follow him and he could not refuse to take him.."Although not translated in the English by Dr Muhsin Khan, the original Arabic text states Ayesha calling this "Nikah Ijtimah" (Combined Nikah).
Mu'awiya bin Hind was the product of Nikah Ijtimah (Combined Nikah)
Ibn Abi al Hadeed in Sharh Nahjul Balagha notes the following in Volume 10 page 130:"When Mu'awiya was born, four people were thought to have been his father Abi bin Umar bin Musaafir, Abi Umar bin Waleed, Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib and Sabah the Ethiopian. 'Abu Sufyan was short and ugly whilst Sabah was young and handsome, Hinda offered him sex and amongst the Arabs there was also a view that 'Abu Sufyan's other son Utbah was also a product of this union".Similarly in Rabi'ul Abrar by Allamah Zamakhshari Volume 3 page 551:"There were four people who were thought to be Mu'awiya's father, Abi bin Umar bin Musaafir, Abi Umar bin Waleed, Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib and Sabah"
Rabi'ul Abrar by Allamah Zamakhshari Volume 3 page 551 In Tadkhirath al Khawwas page 114 Chapter 7 we read:"Sham bin Muhammad Kalbi in his book Kitab Mushab notes that Imam Hasan said to Mu'awiya 'Are you aware of the bed from which you was conceived?' This means he was born from four fathers".In Thanzeeya al Nasab fi Kubul al Arab we learn that: "In relation to the birth of Mu'awiya, four men were viewed to have been his father Umr bin Waleed bin Mugheera, Musaafir Abi Umar, 'Abu Sufyan and a forth individual was also involved. Hinda was a prostitute and had sex with black men, if any children were born from such a union she would kill them."We read Sharh Ibn al Hadeed Volume 4 page 94 under the Chapter "Mun Kitab Ziyad Ubayya" that:"Mu'awiya wrote a letter to Ziyad, the contents of which included the words 'O son of Sumayya' (amongst the Arabs there was a tradition that if one's ancestry was questionable, then that individual would be called by their mother's name. In the same way that Imam Hasan referred to Marwan as 'Ibn Zurqa'- Mu'awiya sought to mock Ziyad by calling him the son of Sumayya?Ziyad replied to Mu'awiya with these words 'Mu'awiya you called me by the name of my mother Sumayya, so as to mock me, well if I am the son of Sumayya then you are 'Ibne Jamaat' as you was a product of Nikah ijtimah".
More on Mu'awiya's 'noble' birth
We read in Muasalib ibne Sa'man munkool uz thun'zeey al Nasab page 97 that:"Research has established that Musafir was a handsome and generous man, he fell in love with Hinda and fornicated with her, she was unmarried and became pregnant, this came to the knowledge of the Quraysh and Musafir ran away. Hinda's father Utbah summoned Mu'awiya's father Abu Sufyan - bribing with a huge dowry, he married him to Hinda. Mu'awiya was born three months after the marriage."We read in al-Nasa'ih al-Kaafiyah page 85 we read:Musafir was a handsome, generous man - he fell in love with the daughter of Utbah, and she fell in love with him. She became pregnant. Maarif Ibne Khurbooz states that when her signs of pregnancy became visible Hinda told Musafir to flee and he made his way out of the city. Naufal states that Musafir was one of those individuals that was killed on account of his love of Hinda.
Hadhrath Ayesha's testimony that Hinda committed Zina
We read in Tadkhira Khawass page 62 Chapter "Dhikr Khwaarij" we read that"when Mu'awiya's sister Umme Habeeba received news about Muhammad bin Abu Bakr's murder, she sent Ayesha a cooked goat suggesting that the reason for his killing was his murder of Uthman. When this happened Ayesha said "May Allah (swt) kill this daughter of fornicating woman. By Allah! I shall never eat this meat again".
The 'virtues' possessed by one born illegitimately
Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Qutubadeen Shirazi in his book "Nizhaath Quloob Munkool az Isthakhsa al Fahm" page 981 states:"A child born out of fornication is better due to the fact that a man does so with complete effort and enjoyment, whilst a child conceived legitimately only pleases his wife. A child born from fornication is more clever, that is why Amr bin Aas and Mu'awiya bin Abu Sufyan were great politicians and are counted as amongst the people of deception, the greatest politician from this group was Ziyad bin Ubayya".
One born illegitimately can not be a Khalifa
Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah al Muhaddith Shah Waliyullah Dehlavi in his Hujjutul Balaghtha Volume 2 page 149 "Dhikr Khilafath" states:"To be a Khalifa one must satisfy the following six requirements, he must be

1. wise
2. mature
3. Free
4. a Man
5. Brave
6. Possess good ancestry
"On this issue of ancestry Shah states:"The Khalifa should be such an individual that people recognise him on account of his good family, and not the opposite where the people would show him disrespect".The combined nikah, its merits and Hinda's fornication has now been presented faithfully from the texts of Ahl'ul Sunnah. Mu'awiya may indeed have been a master of deception and a great politician, but as Shah Waliyullah states, one born illegitimately can not attaint the position of Khalifa, you need to possess a good ancestry - something that Mu'awiya did not possess, his mother entered the pre jahiliyya system of Nikah sleeping with four different men.Mu'awiya the politician and khalifa dedicated 5 years of his life fighting the Imam of Guidance 'Ali ibne Abi Talib (as), he poisoned Imam Hasan (as), he introduced the ugly bidah of cursing Imam 'Ali (as) during the Friday Sermon. He murdered the supporters of 'Ali (as), introduced practices that contradicted the Qur'an and Sunnah, made his alcoholic son Yazeed Khalifa over the nation. Hinda's suckling and the combined Nikah may well have indeed created a great politician but, one of the signs of being illegitimate is hatred of Imam 'Ali (as) - and Mu'awiya through his actions confirmed the authenticity of this hadith.
One who fights the rightful Imam is a Fasiq
In al-Nasa'ih al-Kaafiyah page 130, Muhammad din Aqeeal Shaafi whilst discussing the justice of the companions states:"?prior to the murder of Hadhrath Uthman all the Sahaba were Adil (Just). After his murder, fitnah arose and a viewpoint developed that those who fought against Hadhrath 'Ali were fasiq because they rebelled against the rightful Imam".
One who turns his back on the right path is a Zaalim and Fasiq
In Sharh al Maqasid Volume 2 page 306 Allamah Taftazani states that:"The battles between the Sahaba are proof that some companions left the right path and became Zaalim and Fasiq because they became affected by jealousy, hatred, hypocrisy, a desire for power and indulgence because not all the companions were just, not was every individual who saw Rasulullah (s), good".
Sharh al Maqasid Volume 2 page 306Clearly the right path was to attach themselves to 'Ali (as). By turning their backs on him and fighting him, proves that Mu'awiya and his party had gone astray. He fought 'Ali and caused the death of prominent companions. Thereafter as a Khalifa he adopted a policy of oppression against the lovers of Hadhrath 'Ali and cursed him during the Friday Sermons. Do we need any further proof to demonstrate that Mu'awiya had gone astray and hated Imam 'Ali (as)? Mu'awiya continued to act in the way of descendants. His brother, maternal grandfather and uncle were killed at the hands of Maula 'Ali (as) at Badr. Mu'awiya was hence motivated by hatred and dedicated his life to fighting Imam 'Ali (as).
Mu'awiya's Conquests
Some advocates of Mu'awiya commonly highlight the fact that the Muslim Empire was expanded under his rule with Sahaba under his helm, as was not the case under Imam Ali (as)'s khilafath. It should be pointed out that empire expansion means little in the eyes of Allah (swt). One will be questioned on the day of judgement on his 'personal deeds' and Mu'awiya despite his advocate's poor defences, will indeed have a great deal to answer for. In any case, his conquests mean nothing, as Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah 'Abu Bakr al Jassas states in Ahkaam ul Qur'an Volume 3 page 119:"Following the four khalifas the Sahaba participated in Jihad under the helm of Fasiq's and Faajirs, 'Abu Ayub Ansari participated in Jihad under the Leadership of Yazeed".
Mu'awiya's Government compared by Hadhrath Ayesha to Firawn (Pharoah) and other Kaafirs (Pagans)


1. Shaykh ul Mudira page 165
2. al Bidaya 131 Volume 8
3. Mukhtasar Ta'reekh al-Dimishk Volume 25 page 42
Aswat bin Yazeed said to Hadhrath Ayesha: 'Aren't you surprised that this Mu'awiya is from Tulaqa (freed captive) and in Khilafath he fought the companions? Ayesha replied 'this Government and Kingdom, Allah (swt) gives Leadership to both just and tyrannical, for 400 years in Egypt the enemies of God, Phiraun ruled as did other Kaafir Kings".Hadhrath Ayesha's comparing of Mu'awiya to Firawn and other kaafirs is in fact a reference to the Qur'an, where Allah (swt) states in Surah Hud verses 96-99:"And we sent Moses, with Our Clear (Signs) and an authority manifest, Unto Pharaoh and his chiefs: but they followed the command of Pharaoh and the command of Pharaoh was no right (guide). He will go before his people on the Day of Judgment, and lead them into the Fire (as cattle are led to water): But woeful indeed will be the place to which they are led! And they are followed by a curse in this (life) and on the Day of Judgment: and woeful is the gift which shall be given (unto them)!" (Taken from Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation).
Mu'awiya's declaration that Ziyad was the son of 'Abu Sufyan is proof that he was a fasiq
In Tarikh Kamil Volume 3 page 225 we are informed:"Mu'awiya's declaring that Ziyad was his brother, was the first act that was in open contradiction to the laws of Sharia because Rasulullah (s) said that the legitimate child is one born from wedlock"Moreover Al Hafidh Jalaluddeen Suyuti also acknowledges this in Tareekh ul Khulafa page 185:"Mu'awiya's declaring Ziyad to be the son of Abu Sufyan was the first act that contradicted an order of Rasulullah".For further Sunni references on this clear bidah please see the following links:
1. al Qawkib al Dhuree by Allamah Mahmood Ayubi page 327
2. Musalman kai aruj aur zawaal, by Professor Ahmad Akbar Abadai page 54
A Fasiq is one who acts in violation to the Word of Allah (swt) and his Messenger. Mu'awiya through this act proves that he was a fasiq. For his die hard Nasibi advocates we would like to know how they explain this declaration of Mu'awiya? No doubt the ijtihad defence may be shouted out but as we have consistently proven throughout this article, you cannot exercise ijtihad where you have nass (text), which was present here via the words of Rasulullah (s). Despite this, Mu'awiya sought fit to make a declaration that contravened the words of Rasulullah (s).
It is a religious duty to expose the deeds of a fasiq
No doubt the advocates of Mu'awiya, like Abu Sulaiman, will seek to protect their Imam from harm, but to highlight the faults of a fasiq of the likes of Mu'awiya, is a religious obligation. Hasan Basri stated that:"The testimonies of three people should be rejected:The individual who openly indulges in bad acts.A Zaalim RulerOne who practices bidath"(References: Sharh Muslim, by Nawawi Volume 2 page 322; Tafsir Ibn Katheer Volume 4 page 214; Ahkam al Qur'an by 'Abu Bakr Jassas; Tafseer Fathul Qadeer)Abu Sulaiman can feel free to choose whatever category he likes because Mu'awiya fits at the helm of each one. His bad acts were evident from his declaring a bastard as his brother. As ruler, his harsh treatment of the likes of Hujr bin Adi as we have demonstrated, speaks for itself. With regards to his bidah of cursing Imam Ali (as), it has been discussed at length previously.Famous deobandi scholar and former chief of Jamaat-e-Islami, Sayyid Abu'l Ala Maudoodi, after citing the words of Hasan Basri in Tahfim ul Qur'an Volume 5 page 87, makes these relevant comments:"It is imperative that we highlight such individuals to prevent the risk of running in to danger (from such individuals) if narrators, witnesses and writers display such faults then such weaknesses should not be hidden, rather they should be conveyed"
Praising a fasiq leads to incurring the wrath of Allah (swt)
Whilst Abu Sulaiman and his Nasibi advocates have dedicated their life to defending Mu'awiya and heaping praise on him, no matter what the cost, we would urge our Ahl'ul Sunnah brothers not to get roped in to their actions, for the consequences are simply too great. The Sunni scholar al Muhaddith Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlavi in Tuhfa Ithna Ashariyya page 191 Chapter 7 states:"It is recorded in Sahih hadith that when someone praises a bad character person, Allah (swt) gets upset with him".Clearly one who is a momin is one that has love for Hadhrath 'Ali (as). Why would such an individual risk incurring the wrath of Allah (swt) by showering praise on an individual who was an enemy of 'Ali (as), fought and cursed him? The modern day Nasibis are trying their utmost to recruit people into their obnoxious cult by declaring their affiliation with Imam 'Ali (as). The reality is very different as one can see from their passionate defence of Mu'awiya which as is the case with Abu Sulaiman, in fact turns in to an attack on Imam 'Ali (as). No rational lover of Ahl'ul Sunnah would ever wish to praise those that cursed Maula 'Ali (as). Let us leave the Nasibi's to wallow in their hypocrisy. They made their own bed let them lie in, to join them on their road to Hell."It is little wonder that Hanafi scholar Maulana 'Abdul Hakeem Chishti in his biography of Maulana Waheed uz Zaman cited his comments from "Waheed ai Lughath":"To say radhinathallanho after Mu'awiya's names takes a considerable amount of courage".
Hayaath Waheed uz-Zaman page 109
Mu'awiya was a Nasibi
In "Lisan al Arab" page 762 by Ibn Manzur states:"Nawasib are those who hate Hadhrath Ali, and embrace that hatred as part of their faith"If this is the definition of a Nasibi then Mu'awiya was the practical definition of one. If his fighting against Imam Ali (as) is not clear evidence in itself, then his introducing the practice of cursing 'Ali (as) in all mosques throughout the territories, serves as unequivocal proof that he had a deep seated hated of Imam 'Ali (as) in his heart. Mu'awiya sought to institutionalize this hatred, by making the ritual cursing a part of the Friday Sermon, by doing so he in effect sought to convince the masses that this was a part of the Deen. It is little wonder that modern day Pakistani Hanafi scholar Maulana Sayyid Lal Shah Bukhari in "Isthakhlaaf ai Yazid" page 216 admitted:"The founder of Nasibi ideology was Mu'awiya".
Fatwa of Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah, Shah Abdul Aziz that Nasibis are equal to dogs and pigs
Al Muhaddith Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlavi declared in "Tuhfa Ithna Ashariyya" page 6:"The Ulema of Ahl'ul Sunnah regard the enemies of Ali, the Nasibis as the worst party that recites the Shahada. We regard them as equivalent to dogs and pigs"
Imam Shafi'i stated that the testimony of Mu'awiya is to be rejected
We learn in Rawdah-al-Manazir fi al-Awai'l wa al 'Awakhir Volume 11 page 133 that:Imam Shafi'I said that the testimony of four companions will not be accepted and those four are Mu'awiya, Amr bin Aas, Mugheera (bin Shuba) and Ziyad (bin Abi)"This view of Imam Shafi'i has also been attributed to him by his student Hadhrath Rabi in Tareekh Abul Fidah Volume 1 under the chapter addressing the events of 45 Hijri:It can also be located in:
Kitab Mukhthasar fi Ahbar al Bashar Vol. 1 page 100
Imam Ali (as) did not deem Mu'awiya to be a momin
Hafidh Sulayman bin Ibraheem al Hanafi in "Yanabi' al Mawaddah" page 190 Chapter 53 quotes "Nasr bin Muzahim who heard from Abu Ishaq Ihsani who states that after the "Tahkeem Incident" he read a manuscript in the possession of Said bin Abi Burdah. In it, it was written that when the people asked Hadhrath 'Ali whether or not his opponents were Momin he replied, with regards to Mu'awiya and his companions 'I do not regard them as Mu'min or Muslim, and I care little about what Mu'awiya thinks".Other Sunni authorities have also recorded these words of Imam '

Un say jab kaha jata hai ki Allah nay jo ahkam nazil kiyay hain un ki pairwi karo to jawab daitay hain ki "hum to us tareekay ki pairwi karaingay jis per hum nay apnay baap dada ko paya". Acha.ager un kay baap dada nay aqal say kaam na liya ho aur rah-e-rast na payi ho ti kiya yeah phir b yeah unhi ki pairwi kiyay jayaingay? yeah log jinhoon nay Khuda kay batayay huway tareekay per chalnay say inkar kiya in ki halat aisi hai jaisay charwaha janwaroon ko pukarta hai aur wo hank pukar ki sada kay ilawa kuch nahi suntay. Yea behray hain, gongay hain, andhey hain is liyay koi baat in ki samajh main nahi aati (Baqra 169-171)


Kindly chose your AMEER. I would like to know the choice of all those brothers and sisters who attended this descusion.


Khawar,
It has been declared by Salman, Sumaira and urself that Ali(AS) was right at saffin. Abhi meray sawal ka Humaira aur Amir nay jawab daina hai..And I believe ki wo bhi yahi jawab daing-gay. So, aap ka nazriya ki "Ek hi jang main donon farik haq per ho saktay hain" aap ki teen misaloon aur phir jang-e-saffin kay hawalay say galat sabit ho chuka hai. Q ki jab hukam "JAHAD" ka ho aur aap khud ko MUHAMMADI kehtay hain, ya khud ko MUSALMAN kehtay hain to aap per faraz banta hai ki aap DEEN kay liyay TALWAR uthayein. Mera sawal ka aap ko strange lagna mujhey us say bhi ziyada strange laga..;)........ Aur jab "JAHAD" ki baat aati hai to aap khud kehtay hain ki sab Ali(AS) ka sath daingay..jis say sabit hota hai ki DEEN kay mamlay main ALI(AS) galat nahi ho saktay. aur yea toa hadith say sabit hai;
"Ali is with the truth and the truth is with 'Ali" - Ref. from the Books of Ahl'ul Sunnah:1-Nuzul ul Abrar page 242-Kanz al-`ummal Volume 6 page 157 Chapter "Fadail 'Ali"3-Tuhfa Ithna Ashariyyah page 2164-Tafsir Kabir Volume 1 page 1055-Jama Tirmidhi, Volume 2 page 573Chapter "Manaqib 'Ali ibne 'Abi Talib"6-Fara'id us Simtayn page 174 Chapter 367-Manaqib, by Khawarzmi Chapter 8 page 568-Kunuz al Haqaiq page 1609-Seerath Halbeeya Volume 3 page 23610-Manaqib by Ibne Maghazli page 144

Kia aap is hadees aur isi tarah ki buhut sari ahadees ko JHOOT sabit ker saktay hain? Refrence zaror daikhein....... yeah main nay apni taraf say koi hadees nahi banayi....!

Now the pbm has been sloved and it has been proven that."Her jang main koi na koi galat hota hai, koi na koi HAQ say larta hai.. aur jang hoti hi HAQ aur BATIL kay darmiyan hai".. HAQ per tazad nahi ho sakta....isi liyay jab JAHAD ki baat aati hai to Ahl-e-Eman hi haq per hotay hai wur eman walay hi eman walon ka sath daitay hain.

ab zara aakhiri baar aap ki mail say hi aap ki thori tas-heh ki koshish karonga, u wrote:

Sochne ka sawaal to ye hai ke jub aaj ke aik naa karaa muslimaan bhi ye baat samajhtaa hai to uss ke waqt ke jayyed suhabba jin meiN ashraa mubasharaa bhi haiN ne Hazrat Ali RA ka saath kyooN na diyaa.Hazrat Zubair bin Awam RA, ko , jo ke Hazrat Ameer Muwia Ra ke taraf se jang laR rahe thaay, jub Hazrat Ali RA ne ne Sarwar kaainaat SAWW ka qol yaad karwayaa ( ke tum aik din Ali RA ke khilaaf naa haq talwaar uthao ge) toa woah phorun jang se alaihdaa ho gay.Hazrat Zubair bin Awam RA ka jang ka chhor dainaa iss baat ki gawahi hai ke woah Allah Taalaa se darne wale oar Rasool e Akram SAWW ke famaanoaN ki izzat karne wale suhabbi thay. aor iss leeaye jang se alaihdaa ho gay ke kaheeN ye baat aaj ke din ke leeaye na kahee gayee ho. Laikin kamaal heeraani ki baat hai ke woah Hazrat Ali (KW) ke khilaaf jang laRne se toa baaz aa gay laikin Hazrat Ameer Muawiaya RA ke khilaaf na laRay.Iss ka saaf matlab yaheeN nikaltaa thaa ke woh iss baat se toa dar gay ke Hazrat Ali (RA) ke khilaaf kaheeN ghalat talwaar na uth ja-aye laikin Ameer Muawia RA ko bhi Na HAQ naheeN jantay thay wagarnaa woah Jang se alaihdigi ki baja-aye Hazrat Ali KW ka saath daite
Aap ki nazar main pata nahi musalman aaj NAKARA q ho gaya hai? Kia aaj ISLAM ka wajood nahi? Kia aaj Allah nay apni khalqat ki rahnumayi chor di hai ? Aap ki yeah baat meri samajh say bahir hai ki hum sirf yeah keh ker ki koi Muhammad-e-mustafa(SAWW) kay dor main ARAB kay kisi konay main zinda tha usay SAHABI kahein aur Munafiqeen aur un logon ko jinhoon nay Masjid-e-zarrar banayi un ko aaj kay eman walay logon say ziyada ahmiyat dain..huh?..

QURAN khud un logon per lanat bhaijta hai jo LA ILAH keh ker bhi Islam ki jarein katnay main masroof rahay.. Aap apni tas-heh ker lain plz ki 1500 sal pehlay Arab ki 100% abadi sahabi ya momin to dor ki baat hai......Muslim b nahi thi..... Aelan-e-Naboat say fatah-e-mecca tak ki tareekh aap daikhein...... wahi log jinhein aap SAHABI keh k izzat daitay hain aur muhabbat kertay hain, unhon nay, un kay baroon nay Islam ko khatam kernay kay liyay konsi kasar nahi chori? Hijrat ki zaroorat q paish aayi Sarkar-e-Do Alam ko aur wo raat kay waqt apnay bister per Ali(AS) ko sula ker hijrat q ker gayay?

Aur kitni jangein huwein?? badr say shurooh karein.. kia muqabila tha......kon tha jo ISLAM ko khatam kerna chah raha tha aur kon tha jo Islam per jaan lara raha tha?..yeah her koi janta hai ki ARAB kay logon nay pichlay RasoloN kay sath kia kia tha? SADIQ aur AMEEN ka laqab rakhnay walay Muhammad-e-mustafa(SAWW) nay jab nobowat ka ailan kia to kaisi kaisi aziyatein dainey lagay Aap(SAWW) ko!.. Jin logoon nay Islam ko shurooh main hi kuchalna chaha aur Muhammad-e-Mustafa ko qatal kernay kay plan per amal kerna shuroh kia to Allah nay apnay plan per amal shuroh kia.. Batil nakam ho gaya.. q ki unhein bister-e-Muhammad(SAWW) per Ali(SA) sakoon say sota huwa mila...... BATIL ki yeah pehli nakami thi jo unhein ALI(AS) ki shakal main nazar aayi...... Badr main Ali(AS) ki shuja'at aur bahduri aur eman ki mazboti ko munkir-e-khuda b tasleem kerta hai...... pata nahi kitnay log zulfiqar say effect huway.. kitni kafir Ali(AS) kay hathoon vasil-e-jahannam huwey... unhi kuffar ki aulad o rishtaydar thay jinhoon nay bughz-e-ali ko diloon main parwan charhaya...q ki wo Allah say nahi balki Ali(AS) ki shuja'at, Eman aur Ilm say dartay thay.. ziban say qalima parha aur MUSALMANIAT kay naam say Islam ki panah main aagayay......un kay dilon ka zeher un ki nasloon main jaker zahir huwa. Ub jinhein in zhezon ka ilm ho wo ager phir bhi SAHABA keh ker dushman-e-islam ko na pehchanay to yeah jahalat hai.... quran kehta hai;(Some verses from Al-Imran)

"Jo log Allah kay ahkamat o hidayat ko man-nay say inkar kertay hain, aur us kay paighambaroon ko nahaq qatal kertay hain, aur aisay logon ki jaan kay darpay hotay ho jatay hain jo khalq-e-khuda main adal o rasti ka hukam dainay kay liyay uthein, un ko dardnaak saza ki khushkhabri suna do"

"Ae Nabi! logon ko khabardar kar do ki tumharay dilon main jo kuch hai, usay khwa tum chupawo ya zahir karo, Allah bahar hal usay janta hai, zameen-o-asman ki koi cheez us kay ilm say bahir nahi..""

"Ae Nabi! logon say keh do ki "ager tum haqeeqat main Allah say muhubbat rakhtay ho, toa meri pairwi ikhtiyar karo, Allah tum say muhubbat karay ga aur tumhari khatawon say dar guzar farmayay ga, wo bara maaf kernay wala aur raheem hai". un say kaho"Allah aur Rassol ki ita'at qabool ker lo" phir ager wo tumhari yeah dawat qabol na karain, toa yaqeenan yeah mumkin nahi hai ki Allah aisay logon say muhubbat karay,jo us ki aur us kay rasool ki ita'at say inkaar kertay hain."

"(Ae eman walo)! Ahl-e-kitab main say ek goroh chahta hai ki kisi tarah tumhein rah-e-rast say hata day, halanki wo apnay siwa kisi ko gumrahi main nahi daal rahay hain magar unhein us ka shaor nahi hai. Ae Ahl-e-Kitab! q Allah ki ayaat ka inkar kertay ho, halanki tum khud in ka mushahida ker rahay ho, Ae Ahl-e-Kitab! q Haq ko batil ka rang charha ker mushtabeh banatay ho? q jantay bhojtay haq ko chupatay ho?
Ahl-e-kitab main say ek guroh kehta hai ki is Nabi kay man-nay walon per jo nazil huwa hai us per subah eman lawo aur sham ko inkar kar do, shayad is tarkeeb say yeah log apnay eman say phir jayein, neez yeah log apas main kehtay hain ki apnay mazhab walay kay siwa kisi ki baat na mano"..

Please note that in above all verses Ahl-e-Kitab kaha gaya hai..kisi specific asmani kitab ka naam nahi liya gaya...... yani yeah goroh wahi hai jis nay Islam ka mask pehen ker islam ko nuksan dainay ki her mumkin koshish ki hai.....

Aap nay zubair kay mutalliq kaha;
Allah Taalaa se darne wale oar Rasool e Akram SAWW ke famaanoaN ki izzat karne wale suhabbi thay.

Laikin aap nay pichlay paragraph main kuch is tarah likha;
Hazrat Zubair bin Awam RA, ko , jo ke Hazrat Ameer Muwia Ra ke taraf se jang laR rahe thaay, jub Hazrat Ali RA ne ne Sarwar kaainaat SAWW ka qol yaad karwayaa ( ke tum aik din Ali RA ke khilaaf naa haq talwaar uthao ge) toa woah phorun jang se alaihdaa ho gay.
zubair ki muhabbat, aur aqeedat ko aap khud hi sabit ker rahay hain:)
Mujhey ab yeah batayein jaisay aap ki above statement, JAB HAZRAT ALI NAY UNHEIN WO QOAL YAAD DILAYA JO KI MUHAMMAD-E-MUSTAFA(SAWW) NAY KHUD ZUBAIR SAU US KI ZAAT KAY MUTALLIQ KAHA THA TO WO JANG CHOR KAR CHALAY GAYAY.

Aap nay shayad socha bhi nahi ki aap un ko hazrat aur RA likhtay hain jinhoon nay even us qoal ko bhi bhula diya jo TOTALLY UN KI ZAAT kay mutalliq RASOOL(SAWW) nay kaha tha.. Yeah kaisi muhabbat thi? Hum ab kaisay yaqeen karain ki aisay banday ko Muhammad-e-Mustafa ki koi aur baat ya sunnat yaad rahi hogi?? yeah ek buhut hi asan fehem aur logical baat hai.... yeah wahi log thay ..Ahl-e-kitab main say ek guroh kehta hai ki is Nabi kay man-nay walon per jo nazil huwa hai us per subah eman lawo aur sham ko inkar kar do
Aap kay ameer kay sathi ka jang chor ker chala jana hi sabit kerta hai ki Muhammad-e-Mustafa(SAWW) nay un ki zaat kay mutalliq aisi koi baat kahi thi jo unhon nay is liyay bhula dee ki unhein Muhummad-e-Mustafa (SAWW) say ya DEEN say ya in ki batoon say koi dilchaspi nahi thi.. wo log to iqtidar kay bhokay log thay.. wo politicians thay jo sirf siyasat khailtay thay..jaisay aaj kay dor main bhi aap ko her jagah milaingay.

Khawar, Islam aman ki baat kerta hai, Adal ki baat kerta hai.. ek aisay nizam ki baat kerta hai jahan KHUD PARASTI ki bajayay KHUDA PARASTI ho..... laikin tareekh-e-insani gawah hai ki insaan nay ILM AANAY KAY BAWAJOOD duniya parasti aur Khud Parasti ki wajah say is nizaam ko dabanay ki koshish ki hai.

Allah nay insaan ko asmani kutub say nawaza aur her asmani kitab kay sath usi kitab main mojood nizam ka ek practical namona bhi Nabiyon ki sorat main insaan per nazil kerta gaya, laikin hameesha Kitab aur Nabi kay aanay kay bawajood SHARUNNAS mojod raha. jo aaj bhi mojood hai..Insaan nay unhi ko qatal kiya jo us kay liyay roshni lay ker aayay thay..phir Allah nay insaan per DEEN ko mukammal kiya aur nabowat ka silsilay khatam ker diya Muhammad-e-mustafa(SAWW) ko sarkar-e-do alam bana ker.

Laikin BATIL phir b mojod raha..wo to qayamat tak rahay ga... toa jab Batil ab bhi hai aur Qayamat tak bhi rahay ga to nabowat ka silsila band q huwa? Halanki Allah insaan ko kabhi bagair hadi(Practical Quran) kay nahi chorta..... kia insaan kay liyay sirf quran hi kafi hai? Kia Allah itna bay insaaf hai ki insaan per wo deen lago karay jis kay oper 100% amal kernay wala koi mojod na ho?.. kia Allah ko is cheez ka ilm nahi tha ki Khatm-e-nabowat kay baad duniya main Nabi ki pehlay say ziyada zarorat pernay wali hogi? Kia Allah is say baykhabar tha ya is baat say baykhabar hai ki BATIL kia kerayga? the answers of these question we all know. Jis jis kay pas aqal hai us ki samajh main yeah baat aati hai ki QANON parnha alag hai aur QANON samajh ker nibhana alag hai. Red batti per ishara torna khilaf-e-qanon hai...... is ko janta her koi hai laikin mejority MAJOBRAN nibhati hai......:).. Kia Allah kay banayay huway QANON main koi khami hai.?? kia QURAN parhnay say aap ko is main koi KHAMI nazar aati hai?? Nahi..... laikin yahan to q ki GHAIB(KHUDA) per yaqeen ki baat hai jo ki HAZIR(KHUD) kay opposite hai..aur yeah yaqeen sirf us waqt aata hai jab aap ko us QANON ko 100% nibhanay aur follow kernay wala nazar aajayay..yani koi aisi shaksiyat jis main is QURAN kay deen kay hisab say PERFECTION ho.. SUNNAT ko QURAN kay sath zarori isi liyay qarar diya hai ki SUNNAT PRACTICAL QURAN hoti hai. QURAN ki mujassam sorat Muhammad-e-Mustafa hain aur un kay ahl-e-bait hain .... is say koi bi wo inkar nahi ker sakta jo un per drood bhaijta hai.... And i have said in some previous mail ki sunnat ko samajhnay kay liyay humein usi ghiranay say rabta kerna chahiyay jahan nabi rehta tha, khata tha, peeta tha, sota tha, bolta tha, kaam kerta tha... us ki pasand na pasand ka bhi humein sab say ziyada us kay gher walon say hi maloom hoga... ab ager main aur aap PRACTICAL QURAN ko moawiya, zubair, talha aur yazeed main dhondain to is main qasor humara huwa na..Halanki "Aao, hum log apnay apnay farzand, apni apni auratein aur apnay apnay nafoos ko bulayein aur Khuda ki bargah main dua karain aur jhotooN per Khuda ki lanat qarar dain." Al-Imran #61. ayat bata rahi hai ki humein kin say SUNNAT seekhni hai.. Phir Aya Tatheer (33:33) Ahl-e-bait ki taharat aur pakezgi ki guarantee daiti hai....... Allah nay Ahl-e-bait ko PERFECTION di hai.. yahi wajah hai ki saffin main zubair ko Hazrat Muhammad ka wo qoal jo Zubair say khud Hazrat Muhammad nay kaha tha us ko ba Hazrat Ali(AS) yaad dilatay hain.

Yeah aap ki choice aur ikhtiyar hai.. yahi aap ki liberty hai ki aap kahan say SUNNAT samajhtay hain....q ki SUNNAT ko samjhay baghair aap DEEN aur QURAN ko nahi samajh saktay.

Mujhey to eman,ilam,sabar aur muhubbat ki roshni dar-e-Rasool(SAWW) aur Aal-e-Rasool(saww) say milti hai..is liyay mujhey wahan wahan Kufr, Jahalat aur Intiqam nazar aata hai jahan jahan koi in hastiyoon say anad rakhta hai.

"Kaisay ho sakta hai ki Allah un logon ko hidayat bakhshay jinhoon nay naimat-e-eman pa lainay ki baad phir kufr ikhtiyar kiya halanki wo khud is baat per gawahi day chukay hain ki yeah rasool haq per hai aur in kay pass roshan nishaniyaan bhi aa chuki hai. Allah zalimoon ko to hidayat nahi diya kerta. In kay zulam ka sahi badla yahi hai ki in per Allah aur FarishtooN aur tamam insanoon ki phitkar hai, isi halat main wo hamesha rahaingay. Na in ki saza main takhfeef hogi aur na unhein muhlat di jayay gi. Albatta wolog bach jayaingay jo is kay baad toba ker kay apnay tarz-e-amal ki islah ker lain, Allah bakhsnay wala aur rehem farmanay wala hai. Magar jin logon nay eman lanay kay bad kufr ikhtiyar kia, phir apnay kufr main barhtay chalay gayay un ki toba bhi qabool nahi hogi. Aisay log to pakkay gumrah hain" (Al-Quran)